I feel like the people I interact with irl don’t even know how to boot from a USB. People here probably know how to do some form of coding or at least navigate a directory through the command line. Stg I would bet money on the average person not even being able to create a Lemmy account without assistance.
The average person is becoming MORE technologically illiterate, not less. The era of growing up with a home computer that required fiddling and dial up, etc is over. People grow up with phones and iPads and kids come to school not knowing how to use a mouse.
And for that reason alone I built a Linux PC for my 11 year old and told him to go to town figuring things out. (I supervise everything of course). Dude has been doing fantastic so far.
If he doesn’t solve problems with chmod 777 then he’s already more competent than the ops teams at my fortune 500 company
Who’s going to win?
SELinux+Seccomp+Containers…
Or the sysadmin with sudo and chmod.Neither! It’s whichever script kiddie gets lucky first.
Oh, but you gotta drop a chmod nuke at least once to feel the terror having done something irreversible. As a bonus, you’ll also gain a brand new appreciation for snapshots.
sudo chmod 000 /for securityAnd it’s also so much faster than full disk encryption. Cool little trick the admins don’t want you to know.
You don’t even need to do it recursively:
sudo find / -path '/*/*' -prune -o -exec chmod 000 {} +This is extremely fast.
Cool. I’m old enough that in middle school I begged my Mom to take to the mall to buy Linux. I got a Red Hat Linux CD-ROM pack from a store called Babbage’s. I couldn’t download the ISO on our modem and I don’t remember if we even had a burner at that point.
I used to love going to Babbage’s in the mall. So many King’s Quest boxes….
King’s Quest
Damn, that’s a good hit of nostalgia!
oh man, Babbages. Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. A long time.
I grew up starting my computer use having to navigate DOS just before windows 3.11 was released. I work in tech today and I feel like just knowing about a lot of the automated things we take for granted today has given me a little bit of an edge.
I had to walk to school in the snow ten miles, both ways uphill!
at least you had shoes
You guys have feet?!
Lt Dan?
You mustn’t have been paying attention, Lt Dan ain’t got no legs, that doesn’t preclude him from having feet
deleted by creator
you dont levitate, or teleport.
No. So I had to pull myself up the hills in a wagon and roll my own datetime parser
deleted by creator
I used to have to book computer time at the library and walk to said library so I could play Oregon trail on an apple iie
In DOS time I learned how to type quickle because I had to type in
cd gamescd keenkeenas quickly as possible to minimise non-gaming time.That’s why you install Automenu
I feel the same about things like irq. Useless but I feel knowing how they worked makes you closer to the hardware.
So a friend of mine went to a convention to show off his gaming project. The kids there were trying to touch the monitors to play the game. They didn’t grab the keyboard and mouse. They didn’t touch the controller. They touched the monitor. People’s framework of what a computer is and what it’s made of is completely different than what it use to be
Reminds me of my senior teaching days 15 years ago. Solitaire, same.exe and saddam.exe and whack.exe soon had those oldies clicking, double clicking and dragging.
Didn’t think then that the situation could reverse.
Same still exists on Android and is still a brain twister.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.kubilayerdogan.samegamel
Even when I was like 4, I would’ve gone for the controller. I knew how to use it from Lego Star Wars. I knew how to use a keyboard, but I didn’t play on pc, so I’d have had to have been told the controls.
Hate to say it, but that technical literacy from having to operate computers the difficult way was a small blip in history. So things are just kind of going back to “normal.”
Now, the only real natural entry into “computing” is gaming. Pretty much everything else has to come through formal education, which is largely myopic and boring.
Don’t think I’ve even worked with a gen Z engineer yet. I assume they exist.
I have worked with a few gen z interns/fresh grads, and some younger millennials (I am a 1990 kid) and its interesting… Some of them have been very successful at passing the tests but have no mechanical aptitude at all. Some have been technically literate on first glance, then proven to be just confidently incorrect. In general though, it seems they just didn’t grow up being interested in how things worked like I did. It could be isolated to my small sample size or it could be a general trend. They also don’t seem to make connections across disciplines as easily either but again, that could just be a time in service thing at this point and not a generational trait.
I have not been super impressed with the new ones we get when we get them, some of them have been quick learners though and have impressed me with their adaptability. I am a huge proponent of proper mentorships or rotational programs and that is something that seems to get overlooked with younger grads in my experience.
One thing that really annoys me though, is that when prompted with something they don’t know, they will spit out some randome bullshit rather than say they don’t know. Saying I don’t know is a completly acceptable answer as long as it is followed up with “but I will find out” or “can you help/explain it”. Falling back to a first principle approach and talking through it is also valid but just making up some shit doesnt fly with me.
is that when prompted with something they don’t know, they will spit out some randome bullshit rather than say they don’t know
This is just the majority of people, not specific to any generation. Our minds are predisposed to use inductive reasoning to explain the world around us. We see something new and our brain immediately begins to make inferences based on prior information we believe we know (I say it this way cause our memories are incredibly faulty) that we think is relevant or comparable.
It’s essentially the Dunning Kruger effect: we think we know more than we do and, because of this, believe we can simply assume correctly about other things we know nothing about.
It’s an incredibly bad habit that is supposed to be trained out of us through our education systems but we all know how incredibly faulty those systems are.
The education system as I lived through it in Texas was actively hostile to saying you didn’t know, it was treated as being worse than being wrong or guessing. You can tell by the results allllllll around us.
Hadn’t realized what a gem “I don’t know” is until waaaaay too late. Saying “I don’t know” still often feels like a personal, albeit public, moral failure. Which is so dumb. But feels like it makes so much sense.
I think about the Lucky 10,000 XKCD comic all the time.
As a Louisiana resident. I feel ya neighbor.
I’m a displaced Texan (living in Holland) and boy-howdy, what I would do for a #1 Whataburger meal right now…
I work in a completely different field, but you last paragraph mostly sounds to me like a typical young person entering the job market. There is this false sense og confidence, pride and know it all when graduating. I’ve just seen it a few too many times and I remember how confident and skilled I thought I was when I got out. At the same time, there’s some anxiety and fear of doing a bad job and admitting fault may make you seem weak or unskilled and you want to impress the mentors and blah blah blah.
It is a bit funny to remember how I thought I was going to be helpful to colleagues who were way more experienced than me and then years later I’m being talked at by soon to be graduates who are trying to be helpful by sharing tips with me that I already do on the daily or don’t do because I learned years ago they don’t work. And when I try to give them advice or instructions it’s like they just space out and hear what they think I mean and then do something completely different from what I ask of them, haha. I can’t be mad at it, because it’s just a part of learning and growing into your career. I think it would be a mistake to think that a newly graduated person in any field will be able to hit the ground running without any hiccups.
Maybe I’m just a bit of a softie when it comes to young people, but I just remember how eager I was when I was in their shoes and how incorrect my assumptions were when it came to what my elders expected of me. It all came gradually as I learned how to be a professional and how to solve tasks and find my rhythm. I imagine new generations on the market can’t be much different from myself in that regard. 😊
There’s still a second natural entry, it is being critical and annoyed by corporate greed in apps, streaming services, ads, accounts for everything etc. The privacy/piracy entry.
They exist. They are capable of being smart and curious, but they’re less inherently familiar with the “bleep bloops” as we are.
I work with a lot of gen z engineers that are very competent
Back to what, exactly? At what point in the past was it easier to use a computer than it was in the late 90s? Unless you’re talking about before computers, which doesn’t really have any bearing on what’s being discussed.
I’m assuming they mean “Normal” as in “the general public being completely oblivious to the inner workings of the things they utilize in their daily lives”, not “people going back to having an easier time with tech”.
I’m not entirely sure that is “normal” though. We don’t have to go back very far to reach a point where people would be making their own tools for their craft. I think this modern day is pretty abnormal in the grand scheme about not knowing how the things used actually work or is put together.
do you know the proportion of people making those tools? Like how many people could make tools, and work a technically skilled trade, compared to those who didn’t. Also, if you have a very narrow set of things you need to make, it doesn’t really do a whole lot more inherently. To see this before computers computers, just look at cars. Once they became mainstream you started to see that most people had no clue how they worked, and no interest in knowing.
My grandmother’s generation of my family were largely farmers. Like mostly born between 1910 and 1923. They knew how to make, and fix, tools, fences, etc. However, once they got away from this specific knowledge, that they grew up with, they were completely disinterested, and were suspicious of people who had broader knowledge sets. They also thought learning from reading was pointless, as they never were interested in reading, so they developed their reading skills to be just enough to get by, and became intensely frustrated when they ran into an issue, on the farm, they hadn’t before, and needed to read the manual for whatever piece of equipment it was. They also did this thing, where they would be doing something, like repairing/installing/expanding their irrigation system, but they didn’t have a fundamental understanding of why it worked. Just that you did these things, in this way, and it would work. They also didn’t care why it worked, just that it did.
You are absolutely right, but let’s be clear here… it’s not so much the lack of keyboard and mouse that’s the problem… it’s that these touchscreen devices don’t let you actually DO anything. The devices you can use a keyboard and mouse on ALLOW you to play, customize, make mistakes, and learn. There’s no reason a touchscreen device couldn’t provide that too, but iOS and Android specifically forbid you from learning anything - that’s a recipe for security holes! And THAT’s the real skill they lack. Real competence means bending the endless possibilities to your will - not just being given 5 of the most common ones and being locked out of the rest.
Why there now exists “iPad Kid”.
That a friend I know of has a lot of his kids entirely on smartphones, while their family PC is hidden behind cobwebs and dust; if they want a document printed they just go out to some print shop.
if they want a document printed they just go out to some print shop.
In fairness, it can be expensive to stock the holy water necessary to fend off the demons that inhabit all printers.
Just get a Brother laser
Or a library card.
Last I checked, libraries still charged per page.
Also, libraries are not at home.
Mine let’s you print an amount for free every month.
if they want a document printed they just go out to some print shop.
Print shops are not at home either.
Yes, which is why I said to get a Brother laser printer.
I’m extremely young, I don’t know how shit works, like at all. Because stuff works pretty well nowadays. Cannot imagine not knowing how to use a mouse. It could not be simpler imo. Can’t remember a time that I didn’t know lol
Don’t underestimate yourself. Just by posting here you have proven that you’re more proficient than the average Joe.
It’s not hard to make an account lol
Lots of users fail on anything more complicated than a “Sign in with Google” prompt.
Fascinating. Guess I never knew lol
The average person is incredibly dumb.
Not that dumb. Helpdesk just gives survivorship bias.
The people smart enough to realize modems don’t work during outage don’t call as often.
Except for “can you hack my ex’s facebook” ones. Those are constant for some reason.
Read my comment history to get context on how you are wrong and then delete that comment you just made.
You should spend some time trying to teach CAD to students in High School. My first couple of days with a new class involved teaching them that, No you can’t use your finger, and then how to use a mouse.
I’m in high school rn. I had to use this program called TinkerCAD in middle school for some weird class on the basics of engineering. Wasn’t particularly good at it, but no one needed an explanation of keyboard and mouse. Chromebooks are used heavily, so that makes sense. I never really considered that keyboard and mouse wouldn’t be at least learned. I guess with smartphones and iPads it makes sense. Makes me a little sad, but whatever.
Imagine studying at uni for years to become a programmer, only to be replaced by a vibe coder with an iPhone.
But remember, hard work always pays off!We all imagine that, is has yet to happen. Vibe coders can produce the spaghetti code of upwards of 10 unpaid interns! What value!
AI=ALWAYS indian in the end.
Wait, does that mean that we millennials are actually going to be remembered for something good ?^*
We better find a cool name… the golden generation of tech? The tech overlords?
^* obviously i think we are cool
And once again, Gen X is completely ignored
You have to break the realty market of you want to stop being ignored. Sorry, not sorry 💁♂️.
Gen Xs that got into tech are tech gods, the thing is, due to low tech availability, they aren’t very common in my country.
Well, at least you finally acknowledged that I’m a god.
Exactly. Exposure to technology does not make you tech literate. Tech literate typically means engaged with new technologies.
For instance, people were using phones, fax machines, calculators, watches, etc when dial up came out. Those users were not considered tech literate.
The same happens today, an iPhone or Android user is not tech literate by default anymore.
Soon the era of hosting own VPN and tricking AI will start
i also notice they fall for the simplest scams too online,
The average person is becoming MORE technologically illiterate, not less.
There’s simply no evidence of this
What’s more, the prevalence of cheap, accessible technologies is having a host of knock-on effects. Case in point:
People grow up with phones and iPads and kids come to school not knowing how to use a mouse.
Feels like I’m listening to the Boomer complaining about kids today not knowing how to use a manual transmission.
I wouldn’t say that data is definitive proof. The table is missing ages from 30-under 65 from the table (at least if you’re not logged in, if there is a more complete table please share). Also not sure how good some of the questions are for determining tech literacy. Knowing that Elon Musk ran both Tesla and Twitter in April 2023 is more if you keep up with the news rather than knowing how to work a computer. Other ones are good like being able to identify 2FA or knowing what LLM/AI is capable of.
My wife is a teacher. Kids come to school without the ability to use keyboard and mouse which was not the case in the 90s. I also only drive manual :P
Bullshit, I went to school in the 90s, and half my class had never seen a computer before. I’m surprised you don’t remember how many kids struggled with Mavis Beacon.
It’s always different when it’s your generation. The fact that “keyboard class” was stuffed with Millennials in Freshman year of high school isn’t an indictment of kids’ keyboarding skills.
Only the Gen Z/A cohort has problems.
Feels like I’m listening to the Boomer complaining about kids today not knowing how to use a manual transmission.
There have been some articles regarding beginning CS classes bring required to include teaching concepts like folder structures because a sizeable part of class was list on this concept.
To use your transmission analogy, it would be like truck driving schools now need to how to drive a manual transmission vehicle, which adds to the length of the class. Or all the company vehicles are manual and now the company has to deal with hiring new drivers who don’t know how to drive stick but will say they know how to drive.
new drivers who don’t know how to drive stick but will say they know how to drive.
That’s how my great-grandpa got his first job, truck driving; might’ve been the first time he drove in general, automatic or stick.
LMFAO, bruh, your categories are 18-29, and 65+.
Your Source literally entirely skips over the age group we’re talking about. You’re not proving strong literacy skills of any kind atm.
And writing skills are literally entirely different from understanding how a computer works and how to trouble shoot it. Can you name what activity Gen z is doing that’s equivalent to texting that is teaching them how to trouble shoot computers that’s different then the way millenials learned?
Because the whole point of that comic is that boomers learned to read and write using letters and books but look down at millenials when they read and write short messages to each other constantly, which is also practicing reading and writing. So what activity is Gen z doing that’s learning how to trouble shoot things that millenials don’t recognize as learning how to trouble shoot things?
(For the record I think the generation difference is wildly overblown in threads like this, but Im also not convinced that it’s completely unreal, and I also think boomers still had somewhat of a point that that comic glosses over, and we’re all now seeing it with our attention spans and vitriol).
Ehhh maybe true for the US where they had a solid early tech industry and then made some questionable decisions. I feel like in the rest of the world progress is steady but forwards. Generally young stem university students where I live have all done a programming unit and a technology unit and each year more is added to curriculums whereas older generations might not have been given quite such an extensive education.
Also tech literacy = using a mouse is peak uppity midlife techy person. Get the fuck outta here there are more trans women and femboys wearing thigh highs and running arch off of think pads then there ever were of y’all older tech elitists back in the day.
Thafuq?
Yea, young STEM university students are obviously going to be more technologically literate than their counter parts. That isn’t a new thing and was true for the older generations too.
What questionable decisions are you talking about that the US made that you’re insinuating set them back compared to the rest of the world? The US does have more tech classes now than when I was in school in the early 2000’s. The problem is a vast majority of these kids coming up don’t know how to use computers effectively. It’s not just “using a mouse” that makes someone tech literate. Knowing how to navigate a mobile device, which is designed for ease of use to accommodate even the dumbest people, does not make someone tech literate. Some are power users, but most have nothing more than a surface level knowledge of how to use it. There’s little to no troubleshooting skills.
All of those mobile devices are programmed by actual tech literate people that understand coding, the network stack, security, and the general inner workings of how computers work. This generation coming out now doesn’t know any of that because they never use computers.
And lastly, holy fuck what’s wrong with you? Jesus fucking Christ you just came out shooting in that second half. The person you replied to made a valid, factual point, and you apparently took that as a personal attack. What the fuck do trans people have to do with this? What a fucked up transition to make and shit to take. You need help, dude.
The person I replied to said the “average person is becoming MORE technologically illiterate” and his source is “kids come to school not knowing how to use a mouse.” Yet in the same sentence acknowledges “People grow up with phones and iPads.”
Yeah wow, kids don’t know how to use a mouse because they’ve never used one before. Truly society is regressing. Kids get taught how to use scissors. It’s just juvenoia.
Young people are more interested in technology then ever before. There are more people with computers, more people using computers daily and longer collective hours spent digitally then ever before.
But yeah tech literacy is down guys trust. these kids can’t even troubleshoot a fax machine. Just read the multiple studies that prove my point that I haven’t linked but I’ve definitely read guys trust.
Not knowing how to use a mouse is hyperbole for not knowing how to use a computer, but also, if you can’t use a mouse, you can’t use a workstation computer. Knowing how to navigate a mobile device does not make someone tech literate. In general it stunts computer skills, because there’s minimal tech knowledge required to download an app from a curated store or watching tik tok.
You’re proving our point in the second paragraph. Yea, kids aren’t being taught computer skills. Not knowing the fundamentals of how to use a workstation is a problem and it is causing a regression in technological literacy in society.
Young people tend to be more interested in phone and tablets than ever before. Some for sure are into workstations, but that is not the norm. Id argue less kids percentage wise are spending time on computers daily than 15-20 years ago. Everything is done on iPads or phones in schools, until college. Even if you didn’t want to, back in the day you had to know how to navigate a complex operating system, save files to removable storage, download files and install them, and a plethora of other seemingly simple skills, and that’s not happening now.
If you work in IT or around youth entering the workforce, it’s extremely clear that tech literacy is worse now than it was a decade ago, or at least it is as a millennial that bridged that gap and can clearly see the difference. I can see if someone is younger than millennials why they wouldn’t be able to see that difference, because they are in that demographic.
It would take 5 seconds to do a Google search for millennials and technology and find a couple studies on the topic. It isn’t some secret that’s being hidden and it’s easily accessible. Perhaps your inability to find these studies is the proof that tech literacy has degraded.
Phones and tablets are computers. Being able to use one is a form of tech literacy just as how knowing how to use a mouse and keyboard is a form of tech literacy. Bro it’s your argument, if you’re adamant the sources exist to support it that’s on you to provide it otherwise the person reading your writing will be unable to find specifically what you are referring to. I mean you are referring to something you specifically have read right? You wouldn’t make something up based on vibes right? All this talk about being tech literate and you’re not doing the basic literary work of source citation.
That wasn’t my argument, that was someone else. I’m just shitting on your response to them instead of doing the bare amount of research.
My whole point is, kids are coming out with less computer knowledge as a whole. Maybe they know more on mobile devices than older generations, but I’d argue that’s not even true compared to millennials who were also in the prime of smart phones and tablets hitting the market. The difference is millennials also know how to use workstations, making them more tech literate. Having skills on just mobile devices is very sandboxed and remedial. It’s not noteworthy in the slightest. Being able to work with a desktop OS, understanding a file system, and troubleshooting are tech skills that you get generations don’t have, making them less tech literate.
“That wasn’t my argument, that was someone else”
“If you work in IT or around youth entering the workforce, it’s extremely clear that tech literacy is worse now than it was a decade ago”
Yeah but it ain’t my argument guys I only said it and made a case for it. Come on man, just show the sources. I mean it’s really clear right so all those studies will unambiguously show it. And they’re right there in Google so it wouldn’t even be difficult to find them wouldn’t it.
One time I said “Hey this TUI program works perfect on every single distribution and even BSDs, takes no performance issues ever, and just overall good program. I wanna check contributors on github.”
It was all either anime or trans flag pfps.
Something that amazes me that I often see is tech literate people wastly over estimating the tech literacy of an average person. Any amount of tech support would tell you that most people barley know the basics and doesn’t care for anything else.
Relevant xkcd:
It’s easy to forget the average person probably only knows terminal commands for Debian. And Fedora, of course.
They may not know all the commands, so we’ll just tell them
man manand they’ll be able to bootstrap from thereOf course.
Whenever this topic comes up particularly with tech literacy, this article never ceases to amaze me: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
The curse of knowledge; makes you lose the perspective of the average man in the field of your expertise.
How bad this is in practice is something you can choose to mitigate simply by regularly talking to normal people.
Source: I’m a climate scientist, I do this all the time (and only rarely get looks of complete confusion)
As someone in wildlife conservation, this doesn’t work for everyone. For me, it just makes me hate talking to people. They will be confidently wrong and nothing you say will convince them otherwise. Doesn’t help that I live in one of the worst educated states in the union.
Also, the 'tism puts me at a disadvantage out the gate. So I might be biased.
I don’t necessarily mean trying to convince people of something, I more mean conversing with interested, but less educated people. Convincing people is a whole separate skill set to just explaining your technical knowledge in plain language (which is the part that’s beneficial here).
Climate is something people already understand to some extent. If you start talking about different climate models and their assumptions, you should get those confused looks straight away.
I don’t though, because I actually know how to talk to normal humans. It’s not that hard. You start high-level, and then gauge their curiosity (via questions and body language), and then go a bit deeper, and if they start getting confused, then you back up a bit, and you just stay at their level, not at whatever insane depth your own brain might be at at the time. You use metaphors to link what’s happening in your work to things they have experienced in their life to build understanding at their level. Simplify and abstract, without dumbing it down.
My brain is fully stuck in philosophy of science mode at the moment, and thinking about how to integrate climate science with financial risk models (and how that doesn’t make sense in some ways). I have talked with people from across the spectrum, from people working in climate science or finance for decades, to people with a high-school education. The conversations are nearly always interesting (for both of us), and usually decently long. It’s really not that hard, if you just make an effort to meet people where they are.
You’re fortunate that your field happens to be reasonably accessible to common people. For example, if you’re a production engineer in a company that manufactures network infrastructure, it suddenly gets very hard to even explain what you do for a living. Normal people may have seen a router, but they’ve never even heard of switches. Regardless, they never paid much attention to network hardware, because they didn’t have to.
Climate is a lot harder to ignore. Everyone has thought about these things at some level. Everyone has heard about climate change at school, on TV, news articles etc. People also experience these things on a very personal level. Only very few people can say the same about network switches, let alone submarine line terminal equipment.
There are even more obscure fields out there. The relatives of those professionals just know that their nephew does something technical and hard to understand. I guess those dinner table conversations might gravitate towards some easier topics.
I’ve played with switches before, and some DIY electronics, and have done some network admin. I’ll grant that the actual internal electronics and software are far to complex for even me to understand.
But again, if you talk to someone with some interest in what you’re doing, you can find a level they they can understand. Maybe using metaphors like human-operated old-school telephone switch boards, that’s an image that most people will have seen, and can understand at a coarse conceptual level. You CAN have an interesting conversation at the level, if YOU want to be interested in it (and if they do, which is partially contingent on you being able to connect with them in the first place).
If you think climate is simpler or more accessible, I’d suggest you have a quick go at explaining the Navier-Stokes equations, Darcy’s law for fluid flow through porous media, or why convective storm activity needs to be parameterised in climate models (and at what scale it doesn’t). Climate isn’t easier, or more accessible than network admin - both require years or tertiary education to start understanding even parts of the underlying principles, and no one person understands either field completely. It IS probably more familiar for most people, because it’s in the media all the time. But again, that’s just a matter of finding the extent of their knowledge and interest, and coming up to their level.
Once you work at a place doing lvl 1 tech support, like say a Geek Squad, the perspective smacks you in the face everyday until you’re broken.
No, farmers know barley, average people bearly know
No, Baloo, Paddington, Winnie the Pooh, and Yogi know bearly. Average people barely know.
whelp, I guess that’s the end of that joke thread
No, biologists know bearly, average people, bairly know
I know people who claim to be tech literate but then keep sending me actual photos of their screen whenever they want to share anything. :|
Admittedly, I do almost all of my messaging from my phone, and 100% of Lemmy. Most of the time if I have something on my computer to share, it’s easiest to just take a picture. If fidelity matters, I can take a screen grab and share it to my phone via KDE connect. It’s not a matter of knowing how, it’s the effort required for a slightly clearer image.
When something goes wrong the average response is some amount of confusion and anger with rapid clicking
There’s a huge number of people here who would learn a lot from giving tech support to someone like my mum.
Not me. I am so out of the loop here. But I loved the social aspect of reddit and was on it long enough to know how great it was when it was young. Hoping to find that here.
Honestly, Lemmy does have a lot of the early Reddit vibes. Reddit was largely started as a programming forum, and this user base definitely has a lot of similar traits.
And if you start using user tags, (not native to Lemmy, but most clients have the functionality added,) you’ll realize just how active users are, and how tight-knit the comments sections really are. I often end up finding myself responding to the same 10-20 users.
You’re now tagged as “user tag advocate”. See you around!
Most of the tags I’ve assigned to people are less than flattering.
I can understand why. I’ve only been on here 2 months and can think if a half a dozen users I’d like to tag so I know not to waste my time trying to have a discussion with them.
Can anyone recommend a good Lemmy client for Linux? Bonus points if it works well in portrait mode.
I am on Pop!_OS 22.04 and the only apps in the COSMIC Store are Interstellar and Lemonade.
Interstellar seems fine but if there is a way to tag users in it I can’t seem to figure it out, it also seems designed for Landscape mode and it’s a little cramped on my second monitor.
Lemonade hasn’t been updated since October of 2023, so I’m a little wary of trying that one out. I can’t even tell if they are still developing it or something called Ouch Browser, if its the same project with a new name, or just abandoned alltogether.
I know there are other Lemmy Apps but I am a little lost tbh.
TIL, user tags, cool
then it just became an aggregate forum where you can discuss many niches without being censured like with alot forums from a single mod/owner.
I had a few - not a lot, but some - user notes, but recently switched phones (and to GrapheneOS) and lost them. I used and use Connect, which does have an export/import process, but when I start it I can’t find a way to actually begin the export, i.e. generate the file.
As such, I’m stuck recreating notes by hand. Still, I enjoy creating new ones, as I just did for you, and I love the aspect of Lemmy that you described.
NGL, a lot of my relative tech literacy comes from just seeing all the programming posts too and getting curios.
Just the other day i learned that there is so called “snowflakes” that apprently work as a way to enter the tor network by pretending to be a video call. Crazy cool stuff some people come up with.
Welcome to the trenches.
Linux is second nature to us geeks, so it’s easy to forget that the average person probably knows just Ubuntu or Fedora.
And Debian GNU/Linux, of course.
I can’t do any of the stuff you mentioned. I’m here because I hate traditional social media that are not social at all. And I hate ads. And have an interest in community driven stuff and DIY.
And I don’t feel like I am alone here.
I’m with you, I can’t do any of that stuff. I don’t like most social media , the lack of ads and the 3rd party apps was a big factor for me to join.
3rd here. I can maybe boot from a USB without needing any external help, but im nearly certain im going to need to consult some form of instruction to make sure im doing it right.
I’ve boot from USB on quite a few things in my time. I still check the manual occasionally because there are different keys for the boot menu/bios
spams F2
Dw it’s easy just type
sudo computer open the pornography file
And that’s how you command line navigate
On the subject of not knowing most of the things you mentioned, I’m with the other commenters. As a (hopefully) Linux newbie, do you know of any thorough guides I could use to install Linux on my 10 year old Asus X550J laptop?
Relevant xkcd: Average familiarity
You severly overestimate the average persons tech literacy even when you try to correct for it. Booting from USB is already a really advanced topic.
Though creating a lemmy account is not that complex. Typically all you have to do is fill out a form on the websiten instructions included. The problem there is not the tech literacyn but the willingness of the people to even interact with systems they don’t know, like finding a home instance or understanding the concept of the fediverse. Most people could create a lemmy account, though also most people wouldn’t.
The average person can’t even download the right authenticator app when prompted. The average person can’t type their password the same way two times in a password change field. The average person does not know how to plug monitors and peripherals into a docking station.
Whatever you think the average skill level is? It’s lower than that. By a lot.
You are completely correct and their comments prove it. The bubble is strong here. But it’s a pretty nice bubble
Very proud of all the special little techies in this thread who are definitely smart and different because they grew up troubleshooting a fax machine and not a touch screen display like the younguns of today.
“God damnit!” Kicks and punches machine out of frustration
-machine starts working
“You fucking right, better run correct, or there’s more where that came from, bitch!”
Walks off like a gangster
As they’re walking away they mutter under their breath
“Nobody born after 2000 could do that”
‘nobody beats the shit out of inanimate objects like I do’
Lol that being said, violence against technology was bred into us. But if the violence doesn’t work, digital surgery or therapy can also work. 😉
Have you been spying on me while I do tech support?
At least we could get the fax machine to do things. The touch screen is so many layers of abstraction away from any raw functionality it’s like the pull string on a See and Say.
Yeah it’s impossible to send a PDF over email from an iPhone. Never been done before. In theory it’s possible, but some computer scientists think it may never happen as tech literacy plummets and children can barely describe the best Linux distro before the age of 3 nowadays
It’s impossible to figure out where your PDF downloaded on Android. And then if I miraculously DO find it, whoops - my reader crashed because it doesn’t have permissions to read from that folder. All modern mobile OS tech is a disaster.
-search bar
-“files”
-downloads
“Impossible”
The search bar is an absolute disaster that not only searches your phone, it also sends your search to Google, and if you have, like me, a 128 Gb microSD card, it’s also going to SLOWLY search through the unindexed million files on THERE, chugging along and MAYBE finishing in 2 or 3 minutes.
“files” is an unnavigatable crapshoot, offering “suggested” recent files that didn’t populate because the last 10 most recent files didn’t even get picked up by the scanning service yet, reordering any list of files bigger than 10 things takes FOREVER, half the directories are aliased in 12 places so you’re navigating a loop, and even if you FIND the file there’s no guarantee you can OPEN it because the directory might be protected.
Downloads is a complete freaking mess. If you have a flash card, your stupid Android phone will duplicate all the user directories on it and half your apps will download to the card and the other half to your system memory, and Google’s useless scanning service that’s supposed to keep track of recent downloads goes off on magical adventures for hours at a time so you can locate your downloaded file TOMORROW if it gets around to it.
You’re right… The fact that I can fight with the stupid thing for 20 minutes to get to my file doesn’t mean it’s literally “impossible”. It just means it’s broken, barely usable crap that I refuse to tolerate because I like products that WORK.
I think if it’s taking you 20 minutes to open a downloaded PDF on your phone that might actually just be a skill issue
Bruh most people don’t even realize how much of modern healthcare still runs on fax machines. I didn’t even grow up with fax machines but I had to learn how to use them when I started my career. Most of our interactions with the government and pseudo government agencies for our involuntary / committed Psych patients is done by fax. The cops forgot to give us one of the pages we need when they dropped off a patient a few weeks ago and I found the NonEmerg line for their county and spamcalled their Dispatch at 2am until they faxed it to us.
This is all to say that nurses as a whole are extremely tech illiterate. Most healthcare workers are; they’ve spent a lot of time learning anatomy and physiology and have had very little time left in their schooling to learn tech stuff. I grew up using CL Linux so I do most of the 2am tech support for everything that doesn’t explicitly require IT credentials. The wildest thing to me was watching both older nurses AND younger nurses hunt and peck to type. I grew up using AIM to talk to my friends as a teenager and nothing will increase your fluency with something more than most of your teenage communication that way.
But it also means that I still have to go back to reddit to find people to properly empathize with me. As the OP says, a lot of these people can’t even empathize with the fact that I can’t find people here to empathize with. They just blame my fellow healthcare workers for not keeping up with technology. Like, cool, but I also just wanna be able to talk to them!
I still troubleshoot faxing on a semi-regular basis. I use them with Analog Telephone Adapters (ATAs) in lieu of Plain Old Telephone System (POTS) phone lines. They are, shall we say, special
Don’t worry, my fair tech-literate maiden. I, a tech-dyslexic, am here to bring down the collective IQ and make the chamber echo less. You can thank me later, for adding some much needed intellectual diversity to the mix.
*with strong beliefs on random topics
My own experience, as someone who is not necessarily tech illiterate, but also not an expert either:
I decided to check out some basic Linux stuff, and found a post directing newcomers to a website that was supposed to be a top-notch beginner’s guide. This guide started with a history of Linux, written in the style of an early 2000s GameFAQs guide. It then jumped immediately into selecting a distro, and started describing each option with terms like "lightweight"and “robust” without explaining what those terms meant in that context - or even defining what a distro was in the first place.
As someone who has used Windows for around 3 decades, I could make some inferences to fill in the gaps. But I imagine someone with less experience with PCs would get completely lost.
Now on the flip side, I’ve also shared in another thread the story of how I lost interest in programming partway through my introductory university course, and mostly received positive feedback. The folks in that thread seemed happy to hear the perspective of an outsider.
Ironically a windows veteran can give you a better introduction to Linux than a Linux veteran.
I think the issue is, a Linux veteran is going to be used to all the choices you have, and also know there’s not really one correct answer to most of them. There’s also the effect that when you’ve been doing something long enough to be quite good at it, you overestimate other people’s abilities in the area. Of course there’s an xkcd for that https://xkcd.com/2501/.
So it’s true actually someone that is a windows veteran and has recently worked out the basics of Linux could likely give better advice to another new user.
I think the thing about linux is, the choice is perhaps overwhelming to some at the beginning.
For total beginners I’d point people straight to mint (*) really. https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ now it is going to give you a choice of edition. But I feel like the info next to each version are accurate. Cinnamon if you want things to look good, MATE if you want something modern looking but also fast and Xfce for something a bit more basic, that will be happier on lower end hardware. You can progress to different distros once you’re familiar with things in general a bit more.
Generally, using Linux you’ll always have a lot of choices. It’s just because everything is very modular.
(*) I’ve never used Mint, just because I’m a bit of a Linux veteran (servers since 1997 or so). But, I’ve heard it’s the best to start with for desktop, and the instructions do seem pretty clear.
I put Mint on my mother’s computer because the constant pop-ups from Windows were confusing her constantly. No issues, I just put a big icon that says INTERNET on the desktop and she’s fine now. If anything goes wrong, I’m not savvy enough to easily fix it but I know that at least I can just do a reinstall if something breaks beyond my ability to handle.
I think this is an important consideration too. So much is done from a browser now that getting that right in a Linux install will mean most users are fine for >90% of their tasks (for non gaming tasks that is.)
For gaming tasks there’s loads of options though. If you don’t want to swap OSes you have Steam’s Proton and Codeweaver’s Crossover that do most of the complex stuff for you. For the stuff you have to deal with I’ve been able to tweak it all from GUIs instead of needing to edit a file somewhere. Gaming on Linux has come a long way, and I’ve even switched off of Windows fully I’m that confident in it. Still have to do more tweaking than Windows, but it’s no where near as bad as it was.
Not my fault. Reddit pushed me here!
makes sense, since Linux users (me) are drawn to foss projects like moths to a light
I am not tech literate but here I am.
imposter
Anonymity and the general public do not mix. Barrier to entry is all we have left.
