This is something I have felt for a long time, but with everything going on with that dead fascist, it seems to be really top of mind right now. I am white, for the record.

White society operates on plausible deniability of racism within itself. The number of times in my life when my fellow white people have said something that everyone would agree is definitely racist is actually fairly small, and concentrated into the time I was a teen or so. And not like people were ever afraid of saying it around me, I was very non-confrontational growing up and never really pushed back on anything bad someone said.

The idea is to never say anything openly racist that someone could call you out on. You don’t say “I think black people are naturally violent”, you say “I only go downtown for sports events, it’s to dangerous there”. You don’t say you don’t want to live in a neighborhood with a lot of minorities. You just… naturally end up in the lily-white suburbs. You will say you are open to dating people of other races, but just a coincidence that it’s never happened. You agree that slavery was evil but you also get really worked up when your kids learn about slavery in history class.

Maybe these aren’t even the best examples. I don’t even like citing specific examples because it’s an entire ecosystem. It’s all about never saying enough that someone - even a fellow white person - could call you out on. I think a lot of the time, it’s about lying to yourself as much as it’s lying to everyone else. Because white folks have this notion that racism is “bad”, and no one thinks they are a bad person… but at the same time we live in a fundamentally white supremacist society where NOT being anti-racist fundamentally says something about you anyway.

And Charlie Kirk was as good at this as any white person. I explained to someone the other day what Kirk said about black pilots. And this person responded with “well that’s not racist, he wasn’t saying black pilots aren’t competent he is saying you can’t know because of eeeeevil DEI!” You can take all the comments he ever said about race and pretend like he wasn’t racist (according to white society) because he never said the exact words “I believe white people are superior to other races”, because according to white people that is literally the only form of racism that can exist. Hell, some will even defend the statement “I just like being around my fellow white people” as not racist but just a form of personal preference.

And once you see all this, it can make you feel crazy. You can see so much racism among all your fellow whiteys, and yet everyone denies it. Everyone has an excuse, everyone has a reason it’s not racist. Not looking for sympathy or anything, just describing what it’s like.

  • Rom [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    57
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    The most infuriating thing about this whole spectacle is how the entire MSM, as well as chuds and even libs, refuse to quote him directly.

    There’s no dancing around it, he was a certified racist and proud of it.

  • Asafum@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    56
    ·
    2 days ago

    It’s also crazy because some people just automatically add you into a “club” of actual racists… I was being hired for a job and during the interview the guy actually said “you know it’s hard to find just a clean cut white guy for the job, we don’t want some Dominican guy in a hoodie going into a customers store with our logo on.”

    …yeah… I can’t get behind that one… Sorry my skin color made you think I was also a racist…

    • miz [any, any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      34
      ·
      2 days ago

      I feel like someone who drops that shit in an interview knows exactly what they’re doing. They want to work with other racists, so they are going to put their chips down and scare off anyone who gives a shit about humanity as a whole

      • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 day ago

        Not sure if that is worse than them being racist as fuck, but just not revealing it in interviews. I once worked for a boss who would throw out any resumes if the name on them wasn’t white enough. He claimed it was “because we wouldn’t be able to understand them” (pretending it was a language barrier thing) but it was always just off hand, before any interview or anything to confirm that. Just pure racism.

        That was also a job where I had a coworker who both threatened me with violence for not knowing everything instantly in my first week(not even fucking anything up, just not knowing how to do something I’d never done before), and also that guy ending up in prison. Not to mention my other coworkers who were either massive creeps or stoners who thought that getting high made them better at their job (it didn’t). But yeah, it was the non-whites who were the problem, for sure, that place would’ve fallen into absolute chaos if they hired anyone who had any melanin.

    • SuperZutsuki [they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      35
      ·
      2 days ago

      This shit drives me up a fucking wall. Every white person that isn’t very clearly a leftist makes me uneasy until I get an idea of where they are politically.

  • zipper [any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    i am ethnically belarusian and moved to australia in my early teens. my family is so incredibly overtly racist that even as a kid living among exclusively white people with no experience with anyone who wasn’t white, i still thought it was gross as fuck. what i found weird about other white people in australia is that they would never say the shit my old folks did, but the general sentiment was exactly the same. they wouldn’t call black kids slurs like my mother did, but they’d whisper to my friends about them “looking ghetto”. they wouldn’t explicitly denounce rap as “[slur] music” like my father would, but they’d say something about it being “braindead” and “not a good influence on us [the kids]”. they would say that they were inclusive and “didn’t see color”; it’s just a coincidence that whenever a non-white kid came over, they’d lock their valuables away, something they never did when a kid was white.

    both my family and my friends’ parents were racist. the difference was that their racism came in different forms. my grandmother would scream obscenities at the afghani girl that lived in our building because she thought she was a terrorist. my friends’ parents would eye the hispanic workers at our local diner joint because “he might steal [my] purse”. my brother would do the nazi salute with his white buddies in front of me and my friends because “it’s funny to make [them] mad”, but my white friends would call black girls “ratchet” behind their backs when they never even interacted with them.

    some of it can boil down to classism. i was one of the few poor white kids in my neighborhood; everyone else was decently well off. poverty was always associated with the “brown migrants” within the white community that i interacted with. as a poor white person, i was pitied and given whatever my friends’ families could spare. that treatment never extended towards my non-white friends. there was this tangible sense of them being “the other” and “dangerous”, their culture called “violent” and “deplorable”. they especially talked shit about aboriginal people, how the DEI-adjacent programs we have here in australia to help them out were “stealing white people’s spots”. whiteness almost always meant you were wealthy, and poverty was seen as “dirty”. guess who the majority of people in poverty are.

    but what also needs to be considered is the society itself that white people are born into. most of the anglosphere has white people as a historical demographical majority, and the general attitudes towards racial and ethnic minorities are being passed down from generation to generation. my friends’ parents would always talk about the 80s and 90s as this magical period of time where “no one saw race” and “all were equal”. but back then, you wouldn’t have more than a few non-white people in a classroom or in a workplace. the same attitudes towards non-white people were still there, but because there were barely any non-white people to direct those attitudes towards, it seemed as if everyone lived in harmony. it’s no surprise that once the demographics shifted, all of a sudden the poor “white countries” are being “invaded” by “violent migrants” and “terrorists”. when whiteness is expected as a default and considered the norm, any outlier is seen as dangerous.

    white people, up until today, never really had to address the internalized racism that their ancestors passed down onto them. they never had to confront their bigotry as often as they do nowadays. they might say that they’re not racist, but those same age-old attitudes that their parents and grandparents had are still within them. they might not be as outwardly racist as some certain folks are, but when push comes to shove and they have to pick a side, white people, and particularly white liberals, will always side with the racists. because confronting their internalized racism means getting uncomfortable and admitting that you’ve said and done wrong. it means admitting that you do see color, and have always seen color, but were unwilling to accept it. it means asking yourself, “why have i said the things i’ve said and the jokes i’ve made?”. white society has persistently conjured up negative stereotypes about racial minorities to further white supremacy and the old status quo, and just because it was signed off some years ago doesn’t mean that the remnants of those attitudes don’t remain in white people.

    white supremacy has been taboo for maybe a few decades. the civil rights act hasn’t been passed that long ago. your grandparents have lived through segregated fountains and public toilets. it isn’t something that just vanished once a slip of paper was signed. a lot of white folk i’ve talked to say that white privilege isn’t a thing because “white people struggle too”, and that is a fundamental and sometimes intentional misrepresentation of the issue. the effects of white supremacy and its result of white privilege doesn’t mean that, if you’re white, your life won’t suck. it probably will, because that’s what capitalism needs to sustain itself. the core difference that white privilege makes in your life is that your life will have 100 reasons why it sucks and race won’t be one of them. you won’t be the one who makes the white women clutch their purses simply by walking by. you won’t be the one to be called slurs by a car full of drunk frat boys. you won’t be the one who has to find safe malls to go to just to avoid the rabidly racist bunch of folks that hate you for not looking the way they do. yes, your life will suck, but the color of your skin won’t be one of the reasons why.

    tangent over, i’m off to get hot cocoa.

  • KimJongFun [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    40
    ·
    2 days ago

    A couple months back I, a white guy, was out for a walk just after dusk wearing what I guess a racist person might consider “black” attire (sweats, baggie hoodie, beanie) and while I was sitting at a bus stop for a moment smoking a cigarette, back turned towards oncoming traffic, some cracker in a passing car rolls down their window and screams a racial slur at me.

    No point, really, just that even as a person who’s well aware of how racist this shithole country is it shook me a little and made me wonder just how often this happens to actual POC people and how many of the cowards around me in my liberal bubble of a region are just waiting for a moment to let their mask slip without fear of getting their teeth knocked in

  • carpoftruth [any, any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    2 days ago

    when I was much younger I remember working at a trade show and this random old guy came up to me and told me an extremely sexist joke, then just clapped me on the back and went on his way. I hated the way he just assumed that I’d be good with that. after that I started being more ‘openly woke’ because I didn’t want these fucks to assume I’m on their side.

  • NephewAlphaBravo [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    35
    ·
    2 days ago

    racism is when you say the hard r and nothing else, and sometimes not even then

    incidentally, stopping me from saying the hard r is bad

    absolutely alien thought process

    • porcupine@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      2 days ago

      Saying the hard R is just free speech until a court ordered cardiac surgeon can photograph the racism in the person‘s heart

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    ·
    2 days ago

    I think it goes like this: everyone knows racism is “bad”, and everyone knows that they, themselves, are “good”. I’m “good”, therefore I can’t be racist, since that’s “bad”. They agree with all kinds of racist shit, but don’t think any of it counts as “racism”.

  • culpritus [any]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    ·
    2 days ago

    The infamous Lee Atwater quote really clearly shows this as a purposeful political process.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/

    edited to not include the slur word directly:

    You start out in 1954 by saying, “N-word, n-word, n-word.” By 1968 you can’t say “n-word”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N-word, n-word.”

  • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    make you feel like you are loosing your mind

    It’s not you, it’s them.

    Their ability to feel empathy for non-whites is impaired. And they do that to themselves on purpose to live with less cognitive dissonance when noticing all their privilege. But once it’s done, it’s done. It’s really hard to reverse. They can’t just start to feel normal human feelings again on command.

    The genocide is another example. All the suffering just doesn’t feel as real to them, since it’s happening to brown people. They couldn’t help it if they wanted, even if they tried hard. Whatever happens in Ukraine feels real to them cause the people there are white. Gaza feels less so.

    The study that coined the term empathy gap had white social workers who’s whole job it was to work to combat racism. They were educated on the topic and had a material interest not to be racist and they certainly wouldn’t have said anything racist. But when asked to rate the pain of people on photos, they still consistently underrated the pain of black people. They just couldn’t feel it as much.

    The only thing, that definitely works like a charm to reverse it is genuine, close human connection with affected people. But that’s hard to scale up. But I think, getting a metaphorical (or actual) hit on the nose by resisting people also works to a degree. Makes them notice, that someone has human feelings too and is angry and cares enough to strike back. It’s just less effective in closing the empathy gap and they can always frame it to integrate it into their racism. But of course, it’s not our job to help them get their full humanity back.

  • Sleepless One@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    24
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    I am reminded of this interaction I had with people I used to call friends a few months ago.

  • big agree. as a white person in white society i feel like most white people tell themselves that racism is coterminous with saying the n word, and that since they don’t say the n word they aren’t racist and don’t benefit from institutional white supremacy

  • pinkapple@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    2 days ago

    Wait until you realize that racialism itself is another ideological layer that’s inescapable in a former apartheid colonial state, that you’d expect people to eventually mingle after so many centuries but social segregation is maintained in a million ways, that racial groups are made up and arbitrary like dividing people by hair color or blood type and even by accepting some racial identity as your own group is fucked because it maintains imaginary social divisions but despite all that, oppression and exploitation based on all this made up shit is completely real exactly because the concept of race is treated as real and sustained. And it’s such an entrenched worldview that nobody will understand what you’re even talking about and may get pissed because they think you’re threatening a key part of their identity.