• M0oP0o@mander.xyz
    171·
    6 days ago

    What a hot take, as if firearm owners are all the same, as if there are not left leaning gun owners.

      • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
        62·
        6 days ago

        And dems demonizing gun ownership. Seems it worked out great for the right (er) wing.

        • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
          11·
          5 days ago

          No, it really didn’t benefit them in any meaningful way.

          Widespread gun ownership has gotten an enormous number of innocent people killed though.

          • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
            1·
            5 days ago

            Well in the states yes, since it is seen as some sort of right and not a privilege that requires basic safety training. The rest of the planet seems to be more sensible.

    • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
      11·
      5 days ago

      Personal firearms have basically never been used to resist government tyranny in the US or entire rest of the developed world in modern times.

      What does consistently work is mass mobilization and turning out in numbers.

        • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
          1·
          5 days ago

          Yeah, did you read the examples you gave?

          Your literal only modern example is a case in Fiji, an island with a population the size of Nashville, Tennessee, and army of 6,500 people.

          And the coup was only successful because the special forces unit of the army that was run by a former SAS commander joined the coup and armed them.

          • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
            1·
            5 days ago

            IRA does not count? Really? The dropping of small arms for resistance fighters? Come on, you are getting as selective as you are wrong.

            • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
              1·
              5 days ago

              You’re referring to the Provisional IRA?

              Tell us again how successful they were in their goals of ending British rule in Northern Ireland.

              • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
                1·
                5 days ago

                Personal firearms have basically never been used to resist government tyranny in the US or entire rest of the developed world in modern times.

                Please show us where success was required in the request?

                • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
                  1·
                  5 days ago

                  Oh so you’re advocating for resisting in unproductive ways that don’t accomplish your goals? Glad to get that out in the open.

                  Also, the Provisional IRA primarily used military weapons leftover from WW2, modern ones to the era smuggled in from Libya, and homemade IEDs, so not a particularly relevant example.

  • PoPoP@lemm.ee
    151·
    6 days ago

    Well the founding fathers and the powers at be are directly opposed. If I ran a tyranny, the first thing I would do is push propaganda to heavily stigmatize anything that could jeopardize it. The result I’d be aiming for would be a dynamic where firearms are only in the hands of people who support the tyranny, while making sure anyone who would oppose it is piss scared to even be in the same room as a gun. I’d make sure to instill a complex stigma, such that the opposition not only feels a primal fear of guns, but also a fear of social consequences, since there are plenty of people for whom social outcast is worse than death.

      • nomy@lemmy.zipEnglish
        101·
        6 days ago

        And still today, right here in this thread, you have obviously privileged people tut-tutting gun ownership. Urging their comrades to forsake any defense at all against rising fascism.

        If the people in power get their way there are going to be camps for undesirables on U.S. soil in the next decade.

        I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety.

        Get to know people in your community. Take an interest in growing food, learn how to fix things. Get a gun (or two) and learn how to use them. Iran was a secular, liberal state until almost 1980 when they (mostly legitimately) elected an Islamist theocracy; it could happen here.

  • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
    111·
    6 days ago

    The things that radical fascist media talking heads are hyperbolically lying about nonstop are justification for invoking 2A rights.

    Unfortunately liberals are pussy-assed bitches so nothing will happen and they’ll all be chunked into an oven.

    • CaptainProton@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      6 days ago

      At some point people confused peaceful with harmless. Harmless people who got accustomed to the idea of outsourcing the capacity for violence… but then the vendor had a change in ownership…

  • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.worldEnglish
    144·
    6 days ago

    I await with interest your explanation as to how and why private gun ownership “caused and supported” the current unlawful government, considering that the government is perfectly capable of obtaining its own guns and supplying them to its goons without our input or intervention. And has been doing so for a little over two centuries. Furthermore, gun laws are deliberately structured such that the police and various government forces throughout the country enjoy considerably less restriction (or even none) on the type, number, and nature of guns that they’re allowed to own and use. Even if the individuals in question are retired or no longer on active duty.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      6 days ago

      I await with interest your explanation as to how and why private gun ownership “caused and supported” the current unlawful government

      Dollars to Donuts half those badgeless, masked vigilantes kidnapping people from immigration courts are members of the NRA.

      Furthermore, gun laws are deliberately structured such that the police and various government forces throughout the country enjoy considerably less restriction (or even none) on the type, number, and nature of guns that they’re allowed to own and use.

      Mulford Act, etc. Sure. The disarming of the public is always at the expense of the working class progressive. It never seems to come for the right-wing reactionaries, the domestic terrorists, or the conservative-aligned militia movements.

      But that’s where things get sticky, because “Gun Rights” has become synonymous with “Fascist Politics” as a result. Guns are regularly touted as the tools to overthrow liberal politicians. And as a result liberal politicians champion gun control out of a sense of self-preservation. Meanwhile conservative politicians champion more money spent on the security state, because it allows them to arm and organize far-right police, private security, and paramilitary groups.

      What becomes extra frustrating is when liberal politicians give conservative paramilitary groups the weapons and funds they need to organize, on the grounds that these conservative paramilitaries will protect the liberals from the Lone Wolf / Rogue Agent. Rather than guarding them, these police agencies effectively take the liberal political class hostage.

    • TimmyDeanSausage @lemmy.world
      55·
      6 days ago

      The 2A crowd brought us fascism by voting for literally anyone who told them they could keep their AR’s. Now we have fascism-lite with our government disappearing people unlawfully with plain-clothed goon squads, and the 2A crowd is on the side of the fascists. In other words, they were the ones screaming about the importance of the people being able to protect themselves from the government, for decades, and now that we’re in a situation were people actually need to do that, they’re on the sidelines cheering on the authoritarian government. A lot of people like me aren’t surprised at all.

      • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.worldEnglish
        51·
        6 days ago

        I have a strong suspicion this crowd would have voted for their fascist candidates regardless of whether or not Americans had gun rights at the time. Fascism (not to mention other broadly similar strains of right wing authoritarianism) has managed to rise in several places throughout history and all over the world, without the specific assistance of our deep south gun nuts.

        Tons of liberal supporters are also in favor of gun rights. It’s just that nobody’s catering to them, because they’re less lucrative of a voting bloc than racist rednecks.

        • TimmyDeanSausage @lemmy.world
          21·
          6 days ago

          Those are two great points, and I completely agree with both of em. The 2A thing, in the US, is just one of many tools the billionaire class has used in their propaganda machine to push the Overton window the way they have around the world.

          • nomy@lemmy.zipEnglish
            21·
            6 days ago

            This is a good analysis and a great point re: the wedge issues they use to divide us. God, Guns, and Gays. Things that actually impact a relatively small number of people, but that are central to a persons identity and so can be used to turn people (who might otherwise have a lot in common) against each other.

  • Panamalt@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    91·
    6 days ago

    This is more a consequence of manipulative propaganda and poor education being weaponized against people, rather than a direct reflection of constitutional gun laws.

  • Jhex@lemmy.world
    62·
    6 days ago

    that was always a transparent excuse… only a total rube would believe that was a legitimate reason to sell guns like popcorn in a theatre

  • CaptainProton@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    6 days ago

    That’s kind of been the whole thing about the anti-2a people: they’ve kept saying "the people"in “the militia” are the cops and states (as opposed to the federal government), and the law-and-order conservatives aren’t saying no to militarizing law enforcement, and the pro-gun right for decades (60s-90s) played along with all the “2a is for hunting” nonsense. The point of 2A is for the government to be afraid to do this crap, but 2A is too watered down at this point to have that effect. The kind of population that could live armed as well as any military (not ours) would just have a different behavior in general.

  • grueling_spool@sh.itjust.works
    104·
    6 days ago

    It’s interesting that voting rights were sold on the basis of instituting democratic government. They seem to have caused and supported fascist government.

    Edit: /s

    • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
      41·
      6 days ago

      Gerrymandering. Registration purges. Compromised voting machines. Voter suppression and intimidation. Banning mail-in voting. Closing, relocating, and reducing polling sites.

      Insert meme: “Is this voting rights?”

      • grueling_spool@sh.itjust.works
        42·
        6 days ago

        No! It’s a nonsensical viewpoint, like the OP. I really didn’t think I needed an /s for this.

        Yes, Americans voted in a fascist government, but that doesn’t mean that having democratically elected leaders is a primary cause of the problem. Likewise, while it is a real, quantifiable problem that their constitution allows everyone and their emotionally unstable teenaged kids to carry around deadly weapons, the that right being exercised in support of said fascist government does not make it a primary cause thereof.

        As you say, the prevalence and influence of social media is more relevant to the US’ current situation, but honestly there are a ton of critical factors and everything is so complicated and oh god I’m getting way too worked up over a stupid showertjoughts post and I just need a drink and a hug. Sorry for ranting.

  • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
    31·
    6 days ago

    Given sufficient time and inaction, the unlawful government will become the lawful government.

  • Angelusz@lemmy.world
    64·
    6 days ago

    I mean, the rest of the western world already knows this for decades. You silly Americans are just starting to try and catch up.

  • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.netEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    Counterpoint, civilian gun ownership is the only reason why most marginalized identities in the US aren’t already rounded up into extermination camps en masse. You don’t have the first clue about the history and nature of this country if you think we wouldn’t quickly accelerate organized genocide without that last line of deterrence. Arm every single minority.

  • /home/pineapplelover@lemm.ee
    19·
    6 days ago

    You guys should take these thoughts somewhere else. This specific sub is for just small silly thoughts not politics like 2a rights and the rise of fascism.

  • squaresinger@lemmy.world
    211·
    6 days ago

    That’s what you get if you believe that laws written a quarter millenium ago are still some kind of holy infallable scripture.

    Weapons have changed enormously since then and so has every part of society.

    Back when the 2nd ammendment was written, the average weapon of the military and of private citizens would be about the same: front-loaded, single-shot gun. Soldiers had very low standards of training and militias still formed the backbone of the military.

    It’s totally possible for a large amount of private citizens to stand a decent chance against the military.

    Nowadays a private citizen would have some kind of gun, while the military has tanks, planes, missiles and aircraft carriers. Even if half the country would take up arms, they’d stand no chance against the US military, which makes the whole point of “resisting unlawful government” moot.

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
    23·
    6 days ago

    “Resisting Unlawful Government” is when you need to fight a Ranger who is trying to keep your stray cows from grazing in a public park.

    “Stop Breaking the Law, Asshole!” is when you need to throw on a mask, wave a gun, and snatch someone into a van after they showed up to court for a green card hearing.

  • breecher@sh.itjust.works
    66·
    6 days ago

    Gun rights weren’t sold on that. That is not the original meaning of the amendment, which talked about a standing militia being armed against foreign invasion. But yeah, they have been sold on that in modern times, and it is no surprise to see that that premise is not being questioned in the slightest even in this thread. Just people regurgitating right wing gun rhetoric.