The tacit understanding here being that the funding and feelings of the police is more valuable than the lives of senior citizens.
The tacit understanding here being that the funding and feelings of the police is more valuable than the lives of senior citizens.
I’m in a chapter of the org and we are constantly having this discussion internally. People within the chapter are skeptical of electoralism. What’s your feeling on how they should utilize members time and funds? I’m not on a steering committee or anything but they listen to every member.
Serious Marxists of the past were very clear that participating in electoral politics is at least sometimes constructive, but that’s not the same as electoralism (a plan predicating on victory through the primary means of winning elections) or entryism (trying to have electoral success within a rightist party to steer it toward socialism somehow). Supporting DSA dems who are already campaigning is whatever, I guess, if they have good policies, but the best thing to do is actually have your own platform that you have full authority over so that you can spread a message of undiluted socialism (rather than play PR games like Mamdani) and force reactionaries to contend with it.
of all the
I’ve seen recently about the Zohran campaign this is the most reasoned and theoretically rooted take I’ve seen, thank you for it
Mao said to “move among the people as a fish swims in the sea” so how about asking the members themselves, perhaps also asking people within the local area that the chapter operates in? See what problems come up and see what forms of collective action can help overcome them. Political education would also be great.
Anything but having having things to do with the fascist democratic party or the bourgeois electoral system as a means of achieving pro-worker change. Now that would be a waste of time and money imo
It should not be your only basket or your main one, but it’s silly to dogmatically oppose participating in elections (under your own banner) when they can be good vehicles for agitation.
Break with the democrats. Create a stable financial backing system which could support workers on strike for example, create a safehouse net and secure methods to go undercover, infiltrate labour unions, acquire guns and train people, make connections with other like-minded groups, if there are local issues - ensure active change by your chapter. If possible create an anonymous and untraceable closed system of communication. And focus heavily on logistics workers and infrastructural nodes.
Of course part of my recommendations are likely to get you all on a list, especially these days. Regardless in the end if you want to force the dems hand or more radical measures, the path to that power is the same.
In the most polite way I can put it right now: this is magical thinking. It would make a great movie or video game, but it is simply not something any serious organizer would try to do. It doesn’t even make from the perspective of anyone who has had to work with others to build a house or piece of software or anything more complex than a college group research project. In no way is this more realistic than the idea that Mamdani is going to do communism in NYC (which nobody has ever claimed in the history of hexbear.net).
How are concrete goals “magically thinking” but vague statements about “pushing left” and “opening the door for more socialist rhetoric” are not? These are all things that need to be DONE, I didnt say they are easy or like seriously feasible in a short amount of time- but guess what these are major projects that should have been in the works for the american left since at least 2016.
Revolutionary action is not a simple affair, its not poetry, pottery or a leisurely walk in the park. It is only demanded of the revolutionary to move mountains themselves.
Those aren’t concrete goals though. They don’t even make sense. Where are you getting the money to fund thousands of people during a general strike that could last months? How are you collecting and holding the money? Do you realize what goes into creating an independent, secure banking system? Do you even know for sure that it’s completely necessary or does it just sound cool? The others are just as whimsical. You don’t even know they need to be done because you’re not in the middle of building an actual revolution. You will learn what needs to happen as you go. It’s an inductive process. What seemed needed at the start will likely not be what was needed by the end.
Nobody said it’s poetry. But it is a science and you have to do the science part which is boring and not some Mr Robot Metal Gear Andor plot. And it is actually about feasibility in the short term. That’s the criticism of the liberal blue-Nazi electoralists. The criticism is that their plan won’t work in the short term (ie the few years of someone holding office). You can’t suddenly disregard feasibility on a human time frame because it’s your special ideas that ‘need to be done.’
They never said “general strike,” they just said “strike”
I didnt say that lol. I said a COMMUNICATIONS system, you know like not using whatsapp or facebook to plan your operations.
Yes because menial accounting work for an organization/party is the “mr robot metal gear plot”. Please listen to yourself. You are strawmening into a new dimension. This conversation is over, clearly with people such as you on the american left, nothing will ever change.
You said it right there. You need to collect money for striking workers. Using what? Cashapp? Venmo? Those can be shut down. Where are you storing the money that will support hundreds if not thousands of people for weeks or months if not a bank?
Here is the rest of your plan:
So just buy or “acquire” real estate that can be used to hide people from, presumably, LE. How is that going to work? How are you buying it or holding it? Are you just using people’s houses? Wouldn’t that be a major security problem?
Where are you getting the guns without being immediately flagged? Where are you training all these people that isn’t obvious?
Jeopardize all the above based on like-mindedness
Create a private communications network that’s anonymous and untraceable! Of course. Just do another internet, but leftist.
Of course you want to do all this, you’re 12. Very concrete plans that are completely vital to doing a revolution that you learned from your many years of doing revolution.
A “financial backing system” (a strike fund, in this context) is not the same as a “banking system” and, for all your lecturing here, I don’t understand how even a normie could conflate the two.
What are you even talking about? Unions having strike funds is an extremely normal thing, and strikes are legal under very achievable conditions, so just assuming that the entire infrastructure of society is a trap is absurd.
Still doesn’t make sense. If they’re common and normal then the left shouldn’t have been working on them since 2016. If we’re talking about the DSA specifically, they have one. It doesn’t even make since as a suggestion there either. So the person you’re defending either isn’t talking about a strike fund, or they are and they don’t know they’re common or that the DSA already has one. Either way, it’s not my problem they’re wrong.
“working class revolutionary organization would be good? Oh nonsense sweaty thats not realistic, let the adults in the room talk, there is no alternative to working within the bourgeois system”
The cope must end. It is a cold hard fact that electoralism and entryism into fascist parties are dead ends in the fight to end capitalist exploitation and genocide. Nobody who calls themselves a socialist or communist should have any delusions about them being so. Its more of an individualist childish video game muh metal gear andor avengers marvel soy slop etc. fantasy to expect that 1 guy can steer some genocidal far right party into being even remotely left wing even at the local level.
If anything the democratic party should be forcibly dissolved and its members face an international tribunal headed by Palestine for committing, aiding, and abetting multiple genocides. Those found guilty should be jailed for life or shot like dogs just like how the west promised to do to the nazis instead of employing them in NATO.
Damn you have portrayed me as the wojak twice. I underestimated the level of maturity here.
Their argument wasn’t a smoll bean flawed revolutionary plan it was presented as what all leftists should have been doing for the past 10 years and completely necessary for the success of the revolution. Since you have no actual response you’ve decided to throw basic baby leftism at me like I’m you 5 years ago. Nobody ever said on this site that Mamdani would single-handedly steer the Democrats left. They said he can fuck with rent control and maybe do some basic social policies while holding a seat for a little while. You simply cannot stop making shit up while calling everyone else debatelords and accusing them of manufacturing strawmen.
Kill the democrats for all I care. Despite what you think, I actually do not like them. I also understand their history and what roles they played in atrocity. I promise, like I swear on my life, that you are not the first person to understand these things. A lot of the trouble you’re having right now is just your impotency in the face of atrocity creating the need to lash out online (one of your few means of political expression that won’t get you killed or jailed). I understand it’s not actually about me because you don’t know me, which is why you have to pretend that you’ve stumbled upon my obvious liberal dedication to Nazis.
Now, eagerly refresh the page for your next chance to battle the libs comrade.