Many cities in Switzerland are implementing the same, but there is significant opposition from the rural areas. I hope we will arrive at 30km/h in all urban areas.
Literally no. By definition small towns don’t have a lot of things in them, and so the things they do have tend to be pretty basic. If you need specialist medicine, for example, you definitely will have to go to a major city. And that’s not even getting into the open countryside people, who exist in at least the less dense European countries.
I mean, you can still hold the position they shouldn’t get a say, but not that they can totally opt out of whatever is decided.
So the inhabitants of small towns driving daily to work to the next city get a say? I don’t know about Switzerland, but in my area these are a considerate amount, if not the majority of cars in smaller cities. Most don’t need a car living in the city, but you cannot commute into the city without in most cases.
That sounds fair but urban people don’t seem to have any issue with forcing their opinions on speed limits on rural people. If it works one way then why not the other?
What are you talking about? If Lausanne sets a speed limit of 30 km/hr in Lausanne that does not change the speed limit in Morrens or Bercher or Savigny.
The article literally states that Ireland’s department of transport lowered the default rural road limits for the country in February, that’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.
You’re responding to a comment using Swiss speed limits as an example. Here in Switzerland changes in the speed in an urban area do not cause changes in rural areas.
And you’re commenting in a thread about Ireland, so I used a more relevant example. Nonetheless, I expect even Switzerland has things like country wide default speed limits and has its rural road speed limits set by a group in cities or at least the regional centres rather than each village getting to freely choose its own for the roads around it.
The article literally states that Ireland’s department of transport lowered the default rural road limits for the country in February, that’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.
No. The article states that URBAN is speed limit is set at 30km/h. RURAL road is already limited to 60km/h.
By rural they are talking about roads that are not within limits of cities. Note that town/city limits are much more defined in Europe. Usually the last house at the edge of town defines the end of the urban area and the beginning of the rural area.
That is what I said, yes. The point was that rural people in the same country as this urban change have already had their roads affected by people who don’t live near and use said roads.
Edit: The relevant quote from the linked article:
In February, the default speed limits on rural local roads decreased from 80km/h to 60km/h.
How does no one in this thread realise that these “urban areas” speed limits also apply to all the tiny villages that are currently 50kph. In Europe any time you pass a village entry sign you are now in an urban area as far as speed limit goes. PS: I am for the 30kph limits, no qualm there.
I mean, that’s how I read it, too. It’s going to be the default for any urban area, cities of millions, towns of dozens.
But that doesn’t stop rural towns from increasing the speed limit by posting a 50kph sign, either where it is reasonable, or overall. When you enter any town/city-limits by car, you need to slow down to 30kph, unless there is a speed sign allowing for higher or lower speeds.
This is literally all a town needs to say “the 30kph limit is nice, but we don’t want that”:
It’s because many people, especially in the “car bad” crowd, don’t give a fuck about the rules of the road as long as they don’t see any personal benefit for themselves in others obeying them.
We mostly commute by train cause we have amazing public transportation, unfortunately they are working on cutting the 50% discount card for frequent train travelers because (no joke) too many people are using it (about 1/3 of the country). This will lead to public transport being more expensive than owning and commuting by car for many.
I once had a grad class that let out at at 10pm. On the bus ride to class, I was fine. On the ride from class my stomach was in my throat, all the nausea. After a few classes I figured out the difference: on the way to class, there was traffic and people getting on and off. On the home the bus just booked it over all the potholes because it didn’t have up constantly stop.
That’s also when I learned Dramamine [anti-nausea med] makes me wicked nauseous on an empty stomach.
It’s different in Europe. When they say “rural”, they mean any small town not adjacent to a city or other conurbation.
The density of small towns that have hundreds of years of history but are only 5-10km apart from the next 3-4 towns surrounding it are in a stark contrast to the 20-50km distances between North American towns. And rural farms are relatively rare. Farmers generally still live in the small town and then drive their tractor out to the fields.
Many cities in Switzerland are implementing the same, but there is significant opposition from the rural areas. I hope we will arrive at 30km/h in all urban areas.
Hot take: Rural drivers shouldn’t get a say in how urban roads are designed
It’s not their city. They don’t live in it. They can stay in their town if they don’t like it
Literally no. By definition small towns don’t have a lot of things in them, and so the things they do have tend to be pretty basic. If you need specialist medicine, for example, you definitely will have to go to a major city. And that’s not even getting into the open countryside people, who exist in at least the less dense European countries.
I mean, you can still hold the position they shouldn’t get a say, but not that they can totally opt out of whatever is decided.
Well, if they want to come to the city they should leave their car outside and take public transit or a bike.
If that’s a viable option, definitely, but it isn’t always and I can tell you public transport in Ireland is incomplete at best.
Is it not crazy to think that people in rural areas also enjoy the city and go to urban areas? It’s still the same country.
As visitors though. I don’t think their needs are irrelevant, but they shouldn’t carry as much weight as the daily users’
So the inhabitants of small towns driving daily to work to the next city get a say? I don’t know about Switzerland, but in my area these are a considerate amount, if not the majority of cars in smaller cities. Most don’t need a car living in the city, but you cannot commute into the city without in most cases.
Not sure it’s visiting necessarily if it’s their nearest urban center, as then it would be their main source of a lot of stuff so it’s theirs too.
My thoughts exactly!
That sounds fair but urban people don’t seem to have any issue with forcing their opinions on speed limits on rural people. If it works one way then why not the other?
They can drive however they want in their villages. But they need to follow our rules when they come to town.
They can’t though, they have to follow rules and speed limits that are set by people not in their villages.
What are you talking about? If Lausanne sets a speed limit of 30 km/hr in Lausanne that does not change the speed limit in Morrens or Bercher or Savigny.
The article literally states that Ireland’s department of transport lowered the default rural road limits for the country in February, that’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.
You’re responding to a comment using Swiss speed limits as an example. Here in Switzerland changes in the speed in an urban area do not cause changes in rural areas.
And you’re commenting in a thread about Ireland, so I used a more relevant example. Nonetheless, I expect even Switzerland has things like country wide default speed limits and has its rural road speed limits set by a group in cities or at least the regional centres rather than each village getting to freely choose its own for the roads around it.
No. The article states that URBAN is speed limit is set at 30km/h. RURAL road is already limited to 60km/h.
By rural they are talking about roads that are not within limits of cities. Note that town/city limits are much more defined in Europe. Usually the last house at the edge of town defines the end of the urban area and the beginning of the rural area.
That is what I said, yes. The point was that rural people in the same country as this urban change have already had their roads affected by people who don’t live near and use said roads.
Edit: The relevant quote from the linked article:
Anyways, I suppose I should thank you for providing more evidence that drivers are selfish morons.
“We would like to set a speed limit in the cities.”
“Yo boss, the people from the countryside are protesting about your law in the cities.”
What
How does no one in this thread realise that these “urban areas” speed limits also apply to all the tiny villages that are currently 50kph. In Europe any time you pass a village entry sign you are now in an urban area as far as speed limit goes. PS: I am for the 30kph limits, no qualm there.
I mean, that’s how I read it, too. It’s going to be the default for any urban area, cities of millions, towns of dozens.
But that doesn’t stop rural towns from increasing the speed limit by posting a 50kph sign, either where it is reasonable, or overall. When you enter any town/city-limits by car, you need to slow down to 30kph, unless there is a speed sign allowing for higher or lower speeds.
This is literally all a town needs to say “the 30kph limit is nice, but we don’t want that”:
It’s because many people, especially in the “car bad” crowd, don’t give a fuck about the rules of the road as long as they don’t see any personal benefit for themselves in others obeying them.
I do realize that though.
Could be people commuting
We mostly commute by train cause we have amazing public transportation, unfortunately they are working on cutting the 50% discount card for frequent train travelers because (no joke) too many people are using it (about 1/3 of the country). This will lead to public transport being more expensive than owning and commuting by car for many.
Sure, and for 90% of they distance they would still be unaffected. So there is still really no reason.
Duck them.
More incentive fo bikes and public transit if taking a car is more obnoxious (and safer for pedestrians)
Exactly. We have excellent public transport (possibly the best in the world, tied with Japan) and distances are short because the country is so small.
Bus is also gonna go 30 max though?
Buses generally don’t go fast anyway in urban areas
They do, it’s just the average speed is low because they have to stop every few hundred meters.
I once had a grad class that let out at at 10pm. On the bus ride to class, I was fine. On the ride from class my stomach was in my throat, all the nausea. After a few classes I figured out the difference: on the way to class, there was traffic and people getting on and off. On the home the bus just booked it over all the potholes because it didn’t have up constantly stop.
That’s also when I learned Dramamine [anti-nausea med] makes me wicked nauseous on an empty stomach.
Probably one of those cultural things that differs by locale
Why? The rural areas are by definition not urban.
They are.
For any built up area with appropriate signage, the urban speed limit gets applied.
Also a large chunk of the rural population is commuting by car, and has to change their (driving) habits, and changing habits takes effort.
Right, do if an area isn’t rural, it’s not considered rural.
It’s different in Europe. When they say “rural”, they mean any small town not adjacent to a city or other conurbation.
The density of small towns that have hundreds of years of history but are only 5-10km apart from the next 3-4 towns surrounding it are in a stark contrast to the 20-50km distances between North American towns. And rural farms are relatively rare. Farmers generally still live in the small town and then drive their tractor out to the fields.
Okay. How are they impacted by rules on urban development?
Because also the small rural village is classified as “urban” so it need to follow the same general law.
Rural and urban are not mutually exclusive
They are literally antonyms
Here urban is loosely defined as everything inside the city/town/village perimeter, with no reference to where the city/town/village is located.