cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/53819509

There are certain words you don’t want to hear in a medical checkup or in an investment bank’s recession outlook: “stable but elevated.” It’s a phrase that could refer to blood pressure, even risk of a heart attack, a favorite metaphor of hedge fund legend Ray Dalio, or in UBS’s evaluation, risk of a recession.

The bank found that from May through July, the “hard data” from the U.S. economy has shown an elevated risk level, standing at a probability of 93% most recently. This sits at “historically worrying levels,” UBS says, given this signal’s track record of identifying turning points using data from the National Bureau of Economic Research.

The bank notes other classic warning signs of an impending recession from the data, such as the inverted yield curve, which it notes is 23% inverted, steady in recent months but up sharply since the start of 2025. Based on building stress in credit markets, it finds the credit metrics-based recession probability has risen to 41%, roughly doubling since January.

Fortune’s reporting throughout 2025 has outlined mounting warning signs the U.S. is headed toward a recession, echoing and expanding on the UBS research note’s findings. But when UBS zooms in to the hard data, it finds that while most metrics are turning negative, it’s more in a “mile wide, inch deep” kind of “malaise.” None of the hard series of data is showing “signs of rapid unraveling,” according to the team led by Pierre Lafourcade, resulting in an overall bill of health: “Soggy, soft, weak, yes, but not collapsing.” Key findings

The UBS analysis of “hard data” reflects the bank’s own proprietary factor model, which relies on objective, non-survey-based economic indicators such as personal income, consumption, industrial production, and employment data. It filters out sentiment surveys, purchasing manager indexes (PMIs), and financial market signals.

After a brief recovery at the end of 2024, the hard data signal tipped decisively back into negative territory starting in February 2025. The sideways movement since May suggests sustained weakness rather than any new acceleration downward. According to the note, none of the major hard economic series were showing the kind of sharp, downside deviation (such as more than one standard deviation below trend) typically seen directly ahead of past recessions.

The key message is that the U.S. economy, by these hard data measures, is locked in a prolonged phase of stagnation or slow contraction, warranting caution even as outright collapse has not yet materialized. This aligns with other analysts’ warnings that even if a recession doesn’t materialize, the economy is headed for a bout of 1970s-style “stagflation,” a combination of a stagnating economy and rising inflation. For similar reasons, UBS is actually not forecasting a recession despite this 93% probability in the hard data. Aggregate recession risk

Despite the elevated risk, UBS’s economics team is not formally forecasting a recession, but rather expects “soggy growth” followed by improvement in 2026. The bank notes its U.S. Economics team has recently warned about “stall speed” in the economy, especially after the July jobs report revealed very low employment growth, and that call now seems “roughly consistent with the roughly 50-50 interpretation combining the credit data, yield curve, and leading hard data indicators.”

UBS averaged the hard data together with inverted yield curve and credit markets to produce an aggregate recession probability of 52% for July, up 15 percentage points since January and at levels historically associated with NBER-designated recessions. The bank’s recession tracker, therefore, points to a precarious balance for the U.S. economy—much weaker than a soft landing, but not yet collapsing—leaving policymakers and market watchers on alert as 2025 progresses. The other recession calls

Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics, warned in early August the U.S. was on the precipice of a recession, citing much of the same hard data as UBS. Zandi argued the major revisions downward in the July report recalled earlier inflection points before recessions, when he sees revisions as much likelier due to swings in economic activity.

Zandi’s remarks followed a similar warning from JPMorgan, which said it has “consistently emphasized that a slide in labor demand of this magnitude is a recession warning signal…In episodes when labor demand slides with a growth downshift, it is often a precursor to retrenchment.”

In the weeks since, Zandi has voiced concerns over the coming winter of 2025/2026 as the time of greatest vulnerability, putting the odds of a recession at 50-50. Within a few days, Zandi argued states accounting for almost one-third of GDP were either in recession already or at risk of it. By his calculations, only one-third of the economy was expanding as of late August.

  • Whirling_Ashandarei@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    This does not take the shutdown into effect, and if it continues much longer a crash is probably inevitable. But I’m just some schmuck on the Internet.

  • chosensilence@pawb.social
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    7 hours ago

    i’m honestly shocked we haven’t been in a recession for some time. my gut reaction tells me this is politically motivated to not say how bad it truly is… but i’m not sure. probably not but it feels off as an American experiencing life here.

    • orclev@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      It’s because of how bifurcated the American economy (and society) has become. The absolutely gargantuan wealth inequality leads to a situation that for the majority of Americans they’ve been experiencing a recession for years at this point if not decades, while for the wealthy things are going great. The US economy is literally being propped up by the continued funneling of wealth from the poor to the rich. The problem is the poor are rapidly approaching the point where they have no more wealth to steal. The middle class is almost entirely drained, and even some of the lower end of the upper class is starting to feel squeezed. It’s not sustainable and something is going to give one way or another. The economy can’t continue to function when over half the population can no longer afford basic necessities.

      They probably could have kept the plates spinning for another decade at least, but then a moron got put in charge of everything and started replacing people who were greedy and corrupt with people that were greedy, corrupt, and barely smart enough to remember how to breath. This recent shutdown in particular is very much going to force the issue as all the people reliant on SNAPP and Medicaid (or is it Medicare, I can never remember which is which) are going to find themselves unable to meet their basic human needs from their meager salaries (if they’re lucky enough to be employed). Unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised to see an increase in theft and rioting if this doesn’t get resolved real damn soon (might I suggest stealing the tacky gold plated shit from your nearest Mar-a-lago or Trump affiliated business). Even more unfortunately that might be exactly the excuse Trump is looking for to declare martial law. This is what nearly half a century of Reaganomics has gotten us. Maybe we can finally convince some of these idiots that cutting taxes on the rich and removing regulations on corporations does absolutely nothing good.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      i’m honestly shocked we haven’t been in a recession for some time

      Sort of the joke of the American economy and these endless bearish predictions. Any time the market hits some new high point, you get a bunch of naysayers coming in and picking apart all the reasons the end is nigh. We saw this with all the Tesla short sellers from five years ago. We saw it with people shorting Meta after the VR debacle. We had an enormous wave of short-sellers coming during Trump’s first round of tariff pledges.

      So much of these predictions underestimate the size and the momentum of a $30T/year economy. They only know how to fixate on the hot-button topics and fully overlook the rest of the market.

      Not even to say “The End is Near” guys are wrong this time around. FFS, maybe they’re right? 2008 happened. 2020 happened. But then the Fed came in with the money printers and the US government ramped up domestic spending and reinflated all the old bubbles. We have a host of tools to fight downturns and a long history of using them.

      So it is not only difficult to create a sustained downturn. It’s hard to convince investors that they’d be better off holding cash/treasuries than equities with what seem to be an endless growth cycle. And this becomes a kind-of self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone HODLs, the crash never happens, even as the fundamentals continue to look worse and worse.

    • dhork@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      I have a theory that the real problem is the sudden crypto bazillionaires. They ran the right software in 2009 -2011, when it was still possible to mine on desktops, and made 50 BTC every few days. At the time, it was worth next to nothing. Now, that 50 BTC haul is worth $5M (and rising), and they have oodles and oodles of 50BTC block rewards. These people have found the cheat code to more money than anyone should have.

      Now that Trump has found Crypto religion, they are using it to artificially prop up the economy. I have been reading a lot of articles saying that the economy is flat for everyone except the very rich. Guess what? Crypto nerds are very rich!

      I think their plan is to prop up the economy until, somehow, their team is out of power. Then poof! they pull all of their investment into AI slop and the whole country tanks. The Dollar crashes, but crypto doesn’t! Crypto can now buy more dollars, right at the same time when the entire country goes on sale.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        The Dollar crashes, but crypto doesn’t!

        The only problem with this theory is that crypto is fundamentally pegged to the dollar through stablecoins. 15 years ago, there was an argument that bitcoins functioned as an escape valve - like gold or treasuries - and you could flee to it as a shelter from declining asset prices, because they had a firmer floor than revenue generating businesses.

        Stablecoins changed the math, because so much crypto buying/selling is predicated on stablecoins operating as a vehicle for liquidity. Now crypto relies on this continued cycle of increased cash flow just like any actual productive enterprise. The valuation of these coins is predicated on more people buying them up (up to and including pension funds and US Treasury assets). When we’ve seen short-term contractions and adjustments in the market, the crypto markets fell just as fast as everything else. In fact, the sharp dip in market futures over the last two weeks wiped out a bunch of over-leveraged crypto holders for exactly this reason.

        Crypto isn’t an escape from the dollar. It is effectively a form of legal counterfeiting. You can print a “US Coin” that you claim is worth one dollar and trade it for one real dollar. And because interest rates are so low, people can borrow real dollars to by fake stablecoin dollars, effectively laundering privately generated currency into publicly printed money.

        If we do see a crash, it’s not the dollar that’s going to tumble. The crypto coins are what are primed to implode, for the same reason S&Ls crashed in the 80s and we had all those bank runs in the 30s. The stablecoin markets don’t have anything remotely like the cash reserves to back their outstanding credit.

        • dhork@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          You are spot on about Stablecoins, there are $180B worth of USDT alone outstanding and nobody believes they have the reserves stored as dollars anywhere. Accounts that large are hard to hide. Yet, they have not failed to meet redemptions yet, so clearly they are doing something right.

          But, what I am talking about is a purposeful devaluation of the dollar vs. other currencies. It is so easy to trade in and out of the crypto markets in different currencies now that if the Dollar would take a sudden plunge vs. other world currencies, that plunge would have to be reflected in the crypto market as well, simply because of arbitrage.

          Our President has made no secret of the fact that he wants stuff made here, and would intentionally weaken the dollar to get there. He cares about the dollar even less, when his current fortune doesn’t depend on the dollar at all.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            2 hours ago

            It is so easy to trade in and out of the crypto markets in different currencies now

            Because there’s always someone on the receiving end willing to handle the trade at a vig.

            What brought down the US banks in 2008 and then Europe in 2010 was a panic over the daily interbank lending rate. Nobody was holding cash on hand. They all just debted and credited one another in the moment and then settled accounts at the end of the day or the week.

            Once firms were spooked, they stopped lending so freely. That created an enormous bottle neck in the lending flow. And it’s at this point where not having a real cash reserve caused businesses to fail.

            The Fed can always relieve this crisis by flooding the market with more dollars. But crypto - by design - has no central broker to relax liquidity in a credit crunch.

            Our President has made no secret of the fact that he wants stuff made here, and would intentionally weaken the dollar to get there.

            That’s his goal. But in breaking the links to international markets, he’s caused a shortfall in USD overseas. This creates a problem for anyone with USD denominated debts.

            Over the long term it devalues the dollar by decoupling us from our biggest trading partners. But over the short term it drives up demand for international dollar reserves to settle existing dollar debts.

            In any case, neither strategy bringing manufacturing home, because none of it incentives domestic construction of manufacturing capital.

    • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Not in the US but I swear prices and inflation adjusted real wage just straight up never recovered since the 2008 crash, Sure ‘the economy’ has done better and even apparently had a few more crashes and recoveries but on the street its been continuous gradual downhill with little extra drops anytime something major happens.

  • dhork@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    Who knew that UBS, that venerable 150+ year old Swiss banking institution, was really woke Antifa terrorists all along?

  • N0t_5ure@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Who could have imagined that jacking up tariffs to levels not seen since the Great Depression, along with deporting a large chunk of your low-cost labor force, could cause economic contraction?