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Ren from YKMET be like
I can’t believe that that are people who actually believe Hasan used a shock collar on Kaya. To come to this conclusion you have to believe one of two things:
- Either Hasan has managed to hide his abuse of Kaya from all his closest friends and that he’s dumb enough to use it while live, or
- Every one of Hasan’s friends are ok with animal abuse and just ignores it.
I don’t really care about Hasan, I do however care about the people who associate with him such as Maya, QT, Austin Show, and Will Neff, and the assumption that any of them would excuse or permit harm to Kaya is absolutely slander in their parts.
I find this entire drama to be frustrating and sad. Hasan didn’t shock his dog, the only thing he has done wrong is not gone to check on her after she yelped.
Yep, the shock collar thing is a mass hysteria / psychosis event.
The dog caught its dewclaw on the way of stepping up to its bed platform thing.
Just so happened to coincide with Hasan waving his arm around.
D being the dewclaw.
Very common for older dogs to do this on accident and yelp sharply in pain, its roughly like massively stubbing your unshoed toe as a human.
By the way, its also a sign of a good dog owner that Kaya has a specific place to be in Hasan’s streaming room… its her zone, her territory, but also within a space that allows her to be physically close to Hasan.
Thats an uncommonly nice thing for a dog owner to do, to know that well socialized dogs get lonely and bored, and they are more at ease, less stressed, when they can just be with their ‘pack’, their family.
I barely ever watch Hasan, and… well, I’ve lived with 3 different dogs from ages approx 1 to age approx 8 to 10… we would adopt strays or unwanted dogs from the local dog pound or owners who didnt want them anymore, so they’d often been abused or hit by a car or something like that, and we gave them a home… staggered out the adoptions a bit, after first dog was a few years older, introduce younger second dog, manage the introduction phase, train them too, now they have a dog friend, older one eventually dies, wait 6 months to a year, get another unwanted one.
I don’t have to see much footage of Kaya to know that anyone who is certain Kaya is some kind of chronically abused dog is an actual idiot who has suddenly become a dog expert.
That dog is getting older, but is obviously not afraid of Hasan, nor anyone, is very well mannered and friendly, easy around people.
That is not how an abused dog acts.
They act like they have PTSD, because they do, and it takes usually at least a year to get them to realize they can really trust you and start to relax a bit… abused dogs are very much more quick to both fear and anger, much more likely to bristle at amd bark or even attack people they both do and don’t know.
Kaya is basically a lazy comfortable kind of goofy oaf that doesn’t seem like she’s ever had any real reason to fear anything.
One of our dogs… she maybe actually, fully barked 3 times in her life, ever.
Nothing was wrong with her throat or mouth or jaw.
She had been beaten everytime she barked for the first year of her life, and then crammed into a small, dark, cold cage in a garage, by her previous owners.
She would basically do something like a kind of quivering, uncertain grumble, … and it took her 3 years with us before she wasn’t also literally physically quaking in fear while doing so, took her that long to realize that… we weren’t going to hit her for making noise.
Only barked maybe 3 times ever, in her whole life and… they were all basically like a guys voice cracking while going through puberty, because she had literally no idea how to bark.
That is what an abused dog is like.
Thank you, well said. This is better than anything I could write.
I didn’t even know who this guy was but I skimmed over the info available and he absolutely either shocked the dog there on camera or trained the dog to associate pain with vibration by shocking alongside the vibration.
He has old footage calling the a shock collar highly effective. The model he showed after the incident was modified and further investigation shows it does have a shock function.
I will now resume not knowing who this bozo is and I recommend everyone do the same.
The clip of him saying it was effective was cut before he even finished his sentence where he says, “…but I just can’t do it.”
Can you provide the actual links, actual evidence, of any of that, in its full original context?
Certainly we could not expect anyone on youtube or twitch to ever clip or edit something into seeming far more nefarious than it actually is, heavens no.
I can but I have moved on. If you are interested you can find these with a simple search. I think the Google AI summary covers most of them with references.
Watch the material available and make up your own mind.
Ok, so, no, you can’t and won’t, got it.
And surely, surely we can trust an LLM AI to get all the details correct, especially on a recent event, especially centering on a pretty generally controversial public figure.
Ok then.
Anyway, analysis of at least one clip about this incoming in another part of this thread, thanks for literally nothing.
inb4, didn’t watch, too long
this guy does go over a lot of clips and context about hasan’s apparent stance on these things before the incident, i don’t get anything out of trying to break anything down further for anyone, but i know how i feel about it, unfortunately it does take time to form your own opinion esp if you’re insistent on also having it spoonfed to you
K, watched the whole thing.
Its basically a guy trying to follow the evolution of the … collective narrative about the whole thing.
Really doesn’t help that he meanders and imprecisely restates and misquotes all over the place, makes 0 attempt to distinguish between objective and subjective claims.
Anyway, the original thing I asked for, was evidence of:
he absolutely either shocked the dog there on camera
or trained the dog to associate pain with vibration by shocking alongside the vibration.
He has old footage calling the a shock collar highly effective.
The model he showed after the incident was modified and further investigation shows it does have a shock function.
The video you here linked has evidence of only this last one, and specifically notes that there is no way to know whether or not the collar was modified prior to or after the inciting incident.
It has LonerBox giving a likely model of the collar, and noting that it looks like the variant that can shock, but can also have the prongs removed and just vibrate.
Then the presenter here says well, it could be that those prongs had been removed for a while, covered up by electrical tape, and that people are just assuming that that was done after the fact.
It then has a video of Hasan saying… that dog training from this particular trainer, will result in the dog being able to follow commands while off leash, motioning to his neck while he does this.
The trainer says it involves a shock collar. Hasan doesn’t say that though. Hasan also doesn’t challenge it.
That’s not definitive proof of anything other than maybe at one point the shock collar was used in Kaya’s training, these guys are all stumbling over each other for their turn to speak in a crowded environment, this isn’t a very clear conversation.
So… what, are we shifting now from… Hasan shocked his dog, live, while streaming, for the crime of trying to move!
… to…
Hasan may have used a shock collar at some point earlier in Kaya’s training/life.
???
These are different things, but… this presenter just keeps conflating a whole bunch of concepts and keeps going with it.
Then we get to a totally unenvidenced claim, that there is no clip for, at least not yet that I have seen, where presenter says that Hasan intially said Kaya wasn’t wearing a collar at all.
After this, the entire narrative shifts again, to… why did Hasan lie? Why didn’t he explain why he shocked the dog on camera?
But there’s no evidence he is lying, there’s no evidence that he ever said the dog was not wearing a collar.
What I have seen is people cut a clip of Hasan saying that Kaya wasn’t wearing ‘that’ collar… you know, as in, one of many possible different kinds of collars.
But thats not even in this video, and this presenter just… states it as true, with no evidence.
… I still have not seen any definitive evidence that the clip of the inciting incident was him shocking Kaya… and there is a very plausible alternative explanation for why she yelped, that I have already outlined, that … is also the immediate thing Hasan said was what had happened.
But we are all being told, without evidence that I have seen anywhere, that he has been lying from the start, to frame this entire discussion.
So… what… is everyone mad about, exactly?
The actual facts of the inciting incident now seem to no longer be the topic.
Remeber how I asked for evidence about that, specific evidence to establish the veracity of facts, and you claimed to provide that?
This is a gigantic drama fest of every single internet personality trying to jump on latest trending topic, which creates a massively confusing, but more engaging and dramatic narrative experience that you can parasocially be a part of! Wheee!
That’s not how an actual investigation works.
This is how groupthink, gossip, and mob justice work.
yup, you’re just as braindead as the rest of us, mate. glad to take up so much of your time though :p
also, the dewclaw thing is pretty bullshit imho
Thanks for the assist. Im sure when provided with information contrary to their belief they will think critically. :p
I find listing sources to be incredibly helpful but this is one of those cases where all the primary are biased anyway so why bother.
I never agreed to be your sherpa. And I was more saying the references provided by the LLM could help you since you seem to have trouble navigating the Internet on your own. Test your reading comprehension on my first comment sweetheart.
I agree with your distrust for LLMs. You just seemed like the target audience.
I asked you for evidence, you told me to find it myself, and you also said that you could provide the evidence, but you choose not to.
This is basically textbook ‘trust me bro’, and you seem to think that makes me look stupid, and you not look like a gossip monger, because It is known.
Ok then!
I told you to look for yourself because I don’t care one way or another what you decide. I didn’t tell you to trust me. I said I wasn’t interested in debating it. I told you to decide for yourself. How dense can you be? Someone else posted an hour long break down for you. Did you find everything ok or do you need a map and a foot rub?
What of the two options I gave do you believe then? Do you think that famous animal activists would be silent on animal abuse?
I clearly said the second option.
Why are you so close minded to think those are the only options? Go watch some of the evidence and think for yourself instead of sucking hasan’s balls
Then tell me the other options then? Either his friends knew about it and are all in on it, or he managed to hide it from them. That’s the only two options I see.
Ootl What the fuck is going on
Picture is streamer Emiru giving her reaction to Twitch’s handing out a 30 day ban for SA - https://arazu.io/t3_1o9ligi/
Shock collar is in reference to Hasan Piker shocking his dog because she moved during the live stream - https://arazu.io/t3_1o0sjun
Bonus: Veterinarian reacts to shock collar - https://arazu.io/t3_1ob806p
For some slightly more in-depth context: Emiru is a popular streamer on Twitch. She has a personal bodyguard who normally accompanies her to events like TwitchCon. Twitch banned her security guard this time, because of a prior incident where he grabbed a dude and detained him until police arrived. Twitch said they would provide their own security team to protect her instead.
During the event, a creep strolled up on stage (walking directly past multiple levels of Twitch’s security) and forcibly kissed her. The creep was interviewed by security (who discovered he had a knife) and then allowed to leave instead of being arrested. Several of the security guards were even overheard by other streamers backstage, laughing about it. In response, Twitch banned the creep for 30 days. Notably, Twitch has a long and sordid history of blatant misogyny, so this is just another notch in their belt. The image is from Emiru’s response video, right after she found out how he got away with only a temporary ban.
Imagine being on OKCupid, them finding out you’re using their platform for raping women and then going “we are gonna ban you 30 days on our platform.”. LOL
Worth noting that the veterinarian here is massively cutting clips down and out of context, the clips alone that he references as evidence do not actually evidence the totality of the claims he makes before he shows the clips.
That is what you call priming.
Its not actually proof, but, if you are emotionally charged, or otherwise predisposed to dislike someone or something, you’re likely to overlook that.
Fox News in particular is famous/infamous for using this kind of technique, for decades.
Lets break this down, media literacy style:
First, we get vet being… righteously dismissive in expression… before anything has happened in the accompanying clip.
He starts shaking his head, then dog yelps.
He even starts shaking his head… before Hasan supposed goes for the control.
Which he then just labels as that being what is happening.
(this is textbook priming)
Vet says Hasan said dog wasn’t wearing… a collar, the collar?
Not evidenced at all, but just claimed.
(What Hasan has actually said this whole time is that she was wearing a collar, one that only vibrates)
(It is extremely common to have multiple kinds of collars for a dog, an indoor one, an outdoor one for a regular leash, maybe another one for a different kind of leash)
(This is why Hasans words are ‘that collar’, not ‘a collar’)
Onto the next clip, of Hasan showing the collar, which we have been told he lied about.
Hasan: It has the capacity to vibrate [very obvious jump cut] and that’s it.
Oh ok, sure, yeah. I wonder the full clip has Hasan saying. We don’t know.
Ok, now, lets look at this… car key? Key fob? Vibrator remote control? Wireless device puck?
Who knows, its a vaguely black blob with some features.
Ok, now, jump cut to… totally unknown time, could be hours or days away from the incident, we don’t know, but Hasan moved his hand and arm near the same area… so clearly he is hiding something, I guess?
Ok… now here’s… some guy with vibrate/shock collar. Do we bother to establish in any way that this actually is the same model of collar Hasan has?
Nope!
We just say that, ok, moving on:
Hasan has apparently told people why he uses a shock collar!
So, here’s a clip of him describing… some kind of frustration with dog… Hasan never says anything about a shock collar though.
And then Vet goes on to decide that what Hasan said there was… not what he actually said.
Now Vet goes on a patronizing ramble, concluding that this is animal abuse because dog is being prevented from moving around.
You may note that he doesn’t even say that use of a shock collar at all, is itself animal abuse.
No, for him its uh… the way in which it was supposedly used.
So presumably he would be ok with using a shock collar in the right way?
Also he now refers back to the original incident where dog was apparently stopped from leaving the bed by the ‘shock collar’.
Go rewind the clip and you can see that dog gets up, begins to move, Hasan turns around, frustratedly tells dog ‘Kaya, Please, Stop!’ and… dog begins to move back onto the bed… before ‘shock’ apparently happens.
So Vet’s whole theory here is that the ‘shock’ is what prevented Kaya from leaving the bed.
But she was returning to it, before the ‘shock’ happened.
She was just listening to Hasan.
… Yep, I’m going with Kaya … yeah, she probably did need to move around a bit, Hasan got a bit overly terse with her, she goes back toward the bed, and accidentally snags her dewclaw of her front right leg/footpad on the side of the platform, and yelps and recoils from that a bit.
The yelp is perfectly timed with when her dewclaw was passing the edge of the bed/platform.
Hardly animal abuse.
Literally not even close.
If that is animal abuse, then…
…telling a toddler ‘No, put that down!’ when you… thought you saw them grab some scissors, but actually your eyes were blurry, and it was just some glossy folded paper… then that is child abuse.
Its not, by the way.
You should probably explain your mistake to the toddler afterward, comfort them a bit… but as a one-off thing, no that is not child abuse.
Child or animal abuse would be literally locking them in a cage, when you are away at work, something significantly more extreme, and also often repeated.
Even if I ended up being completely wrong, this video from the Vet is extremely manipulative and dishonest in the way it presents its case.
And for what its worth, no, I am not some Hasan stan, you can go back and look at my comments around the last time I was paying attention to him, getting pissed at just how brazen and needlessly inflammatory it was to interview an actual member of the Houthis / Ansar Allah.
Holy paragraphs batman, I think you might be a little to close to this for me to trust your opinion!
How did somebody get a department store mannequin to look so angry?
Why is this chick everywhere?
If you mean currently, she’s a big twitch streamer and she was attacked by a fan at twitch con over the weekend. Her own personal security had to step in because twitch con apparently doesn’t care. This image is from her stream addressing what happened and twitch’s lack of action.
Is that Emiru? IIRC she’s in Asmongold’s orbit, or was. So I imagine Hasan doesn’t fuck with her.
This might be the first comment section on Lemmy where I have no fucking idea what the people are talking about.
Stand proud my friend, I can say confidently that you’re better off being ignorant of these matters.
I did a short self guided tour watching the descent of asmongold into madness and yeah she was in a few videos. notably the house tours where he shows off how fucked up his living situation was/is.
kind of a shame what became of him. he’s got a few genuinely good messages in a video or two that I saw (materialism bad, go outside, etc).
I agree he had some good messages, but I remember watching a video of him reacting to something and he said something really transphobic. Big yikes from me
oh absolutely he’s a pos now, and seems to have been for a few years
I never really watched him, was just aware that he existed, then didn’t really think about him for a few years until he popped up on my feed saying some weird shit. then I had to dive deeper lol
Yea, that’s Emiru. Definitely not in the same sphere as Hasan. As far as I’ve ever seen, she doesn’t fuck with political stuff at all. Just video games and cosplay. I don’t follow her, just seen clips and stuff. I could be proven wrong by someone, but I’d be surprised if she had any affiliation with Hasan.
Ai is why……
reading this at first i was thinking of things other then hasan
Same. As a two-time purchaser of the thing I’m thinking about
quietly shelfs the HüsneAbla x Asmongold Transfem yuri idea
It matched with the color of my eyes
All streamers are trash so it’s always pleasurable to see any of them being taken down for being the assholes they are.
(This is in reference to the guy who is shocking his dog, not the woman who was assaulted, which wouldn’t have happened if Twitch allowed people to bring their own private security. I think streamers are trash but that justifies critiquing them not assaulting them.)
I’ll ignore how dumb the rest of this take is but she did bring her own private security. Her own security guy is the one who got the perpetrator off of her, while event security did nothing and also failed at securing the meet and greet properly in the first place.
In general con security seems to be terrible almost across the board. Absolutely not equipped for how big internet personalities have gotten, it’s mostly in “we’re just a bunch of nerds having our niche event” mode even for events where that’s decidedly no longer the case. And for twitchcon that’s not even the tiniest bit of an excuse since it’s organized by one of the largest tech companies in the world.
…and this is all for “Today’s Dumbest Take”! Thank you and see you next time!
idk where you get that impression from, you can definitely find nice streamers if you look for them.
take RTGame. no controversy whatsoever. swears a bunch, but only as a result of being irish. fantastic community. but he streams on twitch, so i guess he’s trash?
is it because streamers ask for donations? because they play games as a job? i’m genuinely curious.
It’s more there’s such a over prevalence of pedophiles, groomers and general other assholes among the largest circles of streamers and YouTubers. That they all get washed with the same brush which is not fair to many such as RTGame.
But it’s also the profession at it’s highest levels isn’t actually playing games as a job. It’s being a talk show entertainer. That’s WHAT streaming is.
The video game is the stand in for the guest stars.
There is an inherent disingenuity to the whole performance. At least at the upper levels. While streaming may have started off as just gamer sharing their gameplay and what not, it’s very much not the reality of what it is anymore.
That’s why it’s not fair to paint everybody as an asshole just because they’re a streamer. It is genuinely fair to be distrustful of pretty much every streamer. So long as you’re keeping in mind that not everyone is an asshole even if they are in a horrible industry.
It’s a mentally toxic industry after all. Any form of parasocial entertainment is inherently toxic.
Except it wasn’t a shock collar and she wasn’t even wearing that collar during the clip that started the outrage. I don’t like nor watch Hassan, but that’s bullshit.
Yeah I think Hasan handled the whole thing poorly, that combined with him constantly stereotyping anarchists and vegans to sacrificially throw under the bus have caused me to take a break from his stream for a bit due to bad taste in my mouth. But the whole issue itself was absolutely a manufactured character hit. Too many leftists demand heroes who are virtuous in every conceivable way and get outraged when they’re not, but people like that literally do not exist. Not a single person is like that. I’ll be back to watching Hasan in a bit because while he’s wrong a lot, he’s right a whole lot more. And the more viable left punditry becomes, the more leftist pundits we’ll get to push the social overton window back the other way.
He got mad at the dog for doing #1 most common thing that dogs do and then didn’t care when the dog seemed distressed. She was in fact forced to sit still as a camera prop - you know, most dog owners would check what stresses the dog out. It’s not even about the goddamn collar, it’s about how the living being is treated as a toy.
But what if Hasan responded with “umm, thank you for your concern, that was not what happened, but maybe it is true I shouldn’t lock the dog in a single small place” instead of calling people stupid for caring for his pet seemingly more than he does. He got resources to make the dog the happiest one in the city, but why would he even think about that.
It’s just upsetting, is all, all I want to see is that first shred of humility we never saw from him despite numerous fuckups, this case being different because it’s not about dumb internet things anymore, but an actual living creature
I’m going to try to be objective here and add perspective as a dog owner
after she yelped, he immediately froze and looked at her for a few seconds, during which nothing was visibly wrong and she showed no signs of distress. things like this happen with dogs, I’ve done the exact same thing countless times with my dogs behind me at my workstation for various reasons, some of which were random yelps.
with the situation determined to not be of immediate concern, you don’t need to go do a thorough review of the dog right away. you can do that a bit later. if the dog is hurt, they’ll show it.
do I think the effort that goes into keeping her on the cot is a little weird? yeah. but I don’t have experience with big dogs, and I don’t think it’s an issue to tell your dog to stay in their place rather than somewhere else in the room, they’ll be happy either way. my dog will get up off her bed and plop herself down under my rolling chair without me noticing, then freak out when I move because a tiny bit of fur got caught in the wheels, so I tell them to stay farther away or will slide them away from the chair
Okay, maybe that’s fair, but you can obviously see why the clip has upset people. Im tired of the topic, but what upsets me more is that Hasan defenders, and also he himself, use dismissal as the main tactic, and like, no, people are not stupid for having empathy, even when they got too much of it (If you think such a thing is possible). Dismissal also (obviously, as one of the favorite tools of abusers) makes people suspicious. Should people be suspicious in this particular case? I dunno, my point is that these are completely rational feelings to have
Anyway, I will try to avoid speaking more on the topic, doesn’t seem worth the time
That’s not what happened. Kiya was not shocked, he did check on her after, Kiya gets hours of daily exercise, and is allowed to come or go from her cot as she wants.
I will not discuss this with someone named “keep on Stalin”, lmao, revisionism is y’all’s favorite sport
revisionism is y’all’s favorite sport
I literally just replied to you doing that
The timing couldn’t really have been worse for him, but I agree that it was probably just an unfortunate coincidence. I definitely would have physically walked over to my pets if they yelped like that, though.
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