I enjoy having a vehicle that doesn’t run on a computer
Unless your computer is from the 70s, it has a computer.
That said, “always connected, getting firmware updates” is a new thing.
TIL computers from the 1970s aren’t made of computer /s
First one to build the unconnected EV where the purchaser has admin rights (and no one else), wins the race.
Unfortunately, this model is probably already deemed illegal. Regulatory capture is a beautiful thing 👀😬🙊
Can you elaborate the regulatory part? Is it required by law to have them always connected to force push updates?
They’re a .ml idiot. Block and move on.
I just want a mechanical safety backup for the brakes, even non-EV new cars don’t have that :(
Flintstone feet breaker floor box
Did toyota get rid of their hand e-brake? I thought they were one of the few left that still had a manual e-brake.
Admin right on the automotive parts seems like asking for trouble by default. While I’m very much in favor of owning and controlling all my devices, cars feels like weapons we put in the hand of the general public because they’re deemed safe under regulations, so… yeah.
However, an EV with a separate automotive computer that only do car stuff under strict control, connected to another one that do management, UI, entertainment, etc. that’s more open, I could see that. As long as the proprietary one have decent changelogs (that you’d have to trust, sadly) and can be updated at will with a decent UX instead of “your car’s dead this morning lol”. That sound like a viable compromise.
if i cant use sudo on my own device, then its not my device!
Any bad thing the user wants to do with the car can already be done by the person with the keys. Allowing the user more control could prevent someone including a terrorist or enemy state from doing something bad to millions of people like virtually cutting everyone’s brakes at once.
I only agree if that separation means the vehicle cannot be remotely disabled by the manufacturer; on purpose or by accident.
I have a used 2017 Chevy Bolt that I absolutely adore. I bet I could pretty easily disable the OnStar if I was so inclined and paranoid about it somehow getting updates. But I doubt I need to do that.
First one to build the unconnected EV where the purchaser has admin rights (and no one else), wins the race.
Here in the United States a person can already build new or convert existing gasoline vehicles to be “unconnected” and in every way except possibly the battery management doing it with an EV would actually be easier.
It does cost money and take some time but probably less of both than you may think.
Stellantis did it
All I want is a car with modern engineering and simple technology. I’m fine with crank windows and a radio I can easily swap out. But I would like an engine that gets more than 7MPG and has crumple-zones that aren’t my face. I don’t need touchscreens and sensors for everything. And I sure as fuck don’t want the manufacturer pushing out “updates” that can brick my car.
Worst thing is they are collecting info on what people do in the car. Here is an article on Nissan monitoring sexual activity inside car.
Article is clickbait trash. This was something found in the privacy policy. Your Nissan doesn’t have a “sex sensor” that phones home if you whip it out in the passenger seat.
I’m curious to see if there will be simpler electric cars in the future. Like the bare minimum electric circuit to make the car go forward. I could see a DIY kit for something like that. But the security standards these days ask for way more sensors and cameras to reduce risks of accidents wich is fair tbh.
Keep an eye on Slate. Hope they do well
They won’t. Funded by Amazon, corporate tracking will still be mandatory.
If someone can jailbreak their kindles then hopefully someone can jailbreak the car haha
I would download a car
You mean the Bezos mobile? Not a chance in hell.
Ownership has been flipped upside down for modern EV owners (and actually a lot more). You don’t own the machine, nor the keys, you license the experience- software, data, and even the ability to start/ move the vehicle. 30k+ for remote access, EULAs, feature subscriptions to a connectivity mesh? Also the monthly connectivity costs and software updates for… how long?
I’m not sure EV’s are the brilliant solution to modern transport, entertainment perhaps but little to nothing to do with modern or futuristic transport.
That’s a corpo problem, not an EV problem. They could very easily make a perfectly fine EV that isn’t a shitty motorized “smart device”, if they chose to. But they aren’t. The EV push just happened to coincide with the global ramping up of automotive enshittification that had already begun for all cars regardless of their energy source.
Yes of course, electric motors are by and far more reliable, stronger, faster, cleaner, quieter, less polluting, simpler, easier to repair, cheaper… should I continue…
Electric vehicles on the other hand 😅
If you want to be a billionaire go for it. There’s literally no competition in this segment and everyone wants it.
I’m keeping a skeptical eye on them. I really like the concept obviously but remaining cautious for a number of reasons.
Obviously as the other replies mention, Jeff Bezos is one of the initial investors, but that’s also true of Rivian. The important distinction is you don’t have to get the massive tablet computer/nav/infotainment system that would be susceptible to these OTA updates.
Another reason is I was looking through available jobs that they were hiring for and a lot were AI-centric. It was unclear as to why, but obviously that just doesn’t sit right. Regardless of whether they use it for customer support, automotive design, or infotainment embedding, I can’t imagine a good reason and it was more than one type of position.
I’m hopeful for a future awd version.
I have no interest in driving a rear wheel drive in the snow.
Same here but also I don’t want a truck nor something with that low range. Aside from being not what I’m interested in , the “blank slate” concept is compelling enough to be very interesting. I’m definitely going to follow this.
For everyone reflexively hating on this “Bezos Mobile”, I’m well aware of the reputation Amazon built for itself. However they are promising something people could own. For a reasonable price. And even customize. Instead of jumping right to negativity, this warrants some optimism
I picture an electric car with almost no dashboard at all. Just one dial for speed and another for remaining charge along with your odometer if you feel you must have that info. Maybe estimated mileage, but even that’s just spare info to someone who’s used to a classic fuel gauge.
In a car, the interior should fall away and the car should become an extension of the driver. Only by feeling the need to preserve the car do you drive with the necessary attention to protect yourself.
People seem to treat cars like roaming living rooms instead of the farm equipment they really are.
An American worker spending 1hr each way commuting to an 8hr+1hr lunch job is spending 2 out of 7 of their free hours in this machine. It’s understandable that the demand for their vehicle to not be an oppressive environment would arise.
But I do agree that not all cars should be packed with these superfluous amenities
My 2001 Tacoma get like 24 mpg I think, been awhile since I did the math. Anyways it does all you said, got a tape player crank windows, and a bench controlled by 2 springs and 2 levers.
This doesn’t satisfy the “crumple zone that is not my face” requirement.
I’ve been in a crash in a 1995 Toyota 4runner which used more or less the same body, head on into the back of a truck at about 50 due to break failure. I can assure you that old Toyotas are about as safe as you can get without it being modern and even then it’s a relatively minimum difference. A lot of the increase in safety started to happen with cars around 2000-2005 which given the lag time for a lot of these feature to see it in statistics means that that era of car is pretty damned decent.
Also it wasn’t my 4runner mine had its engine self destruct due to a shitty rebuild.
Ineos Grenadier is close…still waiting on the aftermarket to come up with reprogramming tools
Ineos Grenadier
That is 86K. What the fuck. Everything I own is not worth 86k.
The Slate EV is supposed to come in mid-$20k range. Doesn’t even come with a stereo, you get your own that fits in the space, or just zip tie a Bluetooth speaker somewhere. Refreshingly utilitarian, I think things should be modular.
It’s Bezos sponsored, so take the good PR work with a grain of salt given the state of everything he and Amazon have touched
Ah goddamn it.
Wait, no speakers either?
My 2014 Kia Rio has crank windows, no cruise control, 6-spd manual trans. No touchscreens–only buttons.
Car is very slow (1.6L non-turbo) but gets ~36mpg average. I’ve gotten as much as 40 when actually driving for mpg.I think they were doing the Nissan Versa like that for a while too. But it’s definitely not common and should be for cars that aren’t economy-boxes. And just to lay my shit out, I guess, my progression was: 1991 Plymouth Acclaim, 1990 Chevy Caprice Classic (loved that car), 2000 Chevy Monte Carlo (it blew up!), 2007 Hyundai Tucson, 2012 Hyundai Tucson.
I AM in the market for a new car…eventually. Have replace the engine on this one already and know it’s on its last legs. But I don’t see anything out there that I actually like. I kinda liked the Challenger, I guess…but I honestly am thinking about going back to cars from the 90s/80s again. I legit miss my Caprice.
My 2016 versa is crank windows, no power locks, no cruise control, 5-speed manual transmission, no touch screen/complicated electronics in the dash. It’s been really nice minus I do miss cruise control.
Fuck dude, I drove 94 Acclaim across the country, and it was a pos then, but I miss that car. My current is a 05 Sierra, barebones, not even a radio anymore, I really like that it doesn’t have much to break, and it’s decently cheap to fix still
A friend of mine had a Caprice Classic. Such a good car. It was soft and smooth and the economical 305 V8 made good torque while still getting good mpg!
It was a boat on wheels. But mine only got 7MPG. And that “twilight sentinel” nonsense never worked right. It did have some decent pickup for its size though.
Oh wow. The one my friend had got almost 20. He gave me a hard time because it got better mileage than my Jeep XJ of the time.
…he was lying to you?
20mpg doesn’t really sound that far fetched for a 305 if you’re mostly doing highway. Mine was a '78 and got around 14 in the city when just commuting. That thing could drink a lot more with a heavier foot though, lol
Maybe yours was a 350?
A 1.6 in a car that light isn’t all that slow. That’s what, nine seconds? Not a race car, but cars used to be so much slower.
Yes, slow by modern (and my) standards but compared to older cars it’s quite good.
And while peak power is low it makes decent torque in the midrange and is tuned well for daily driving.
My manual transmission Subaru Impreza has Android Auto and a Reverse Camera. That’s the most advanced part of the car. It’s a dinosaur otherwise, with a transmission and drivetrain that debuted in 1999 and an engine that’s rough but reliable. The instrument cluster has two gauges - speed and RPM. The rest are on a calculator LCD that displays numbers for fuel and miles travelled, and a billion different danger lights that tell you if there’s a problem somewhere. It also has electric windows and door locks. And cruise.
The problems the car has as it gets older are none of the electrical bits - they all work fine. It’s the rear wheel bearings, suspension bushings, and center differential that wear out over time. Ironically, the most basic, mechanical parts.
What year is your impreza?
2018, so it’s a 5th gen. They moved it to the Global Platform, so it’s bigger and fatter. Ever since the WRC changed their rules (2016) to force a transverse drivetrain (like front wheel drive cars) for rally cars, that rule basically wrote Subaru out of the WRC.
You and me both.
Where are the shops retrofitting decent cars with electric engines? Gimme that EV 911 from 1988. . . for . . . 11 thousand? Okay fifteen.
I had to buy a 2008 car to get these things you listed
Back camera, cruise control, no radio (data, fm, or am), no stupid fucking touchscreen interface, a dedicated phone holder, and I’m happy. My phone has plenty of sounds to play while I drive and I’ve literally never needed anything a car touchscreen has offered.
While I tend to agree with most people here, simpler is better and fuck touchscreens in cars, but I do prefer to have a functioning AM/FM radio. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy, hell it doesn’t even need USB/MP3/CD player or anything else, but living in a hurricane prone area, I like to be able to get emergency news reports even in the event the cell towers go out.
Katrina was no fun yo, especially when we found out the hard way that a chunk of the eastbound Interstate 10 bridge had collapsed. We sure could have used a working radio to find stuff like that out…
I almost did something like this for my 1995 Exploder. Y’know how you can buy a crate engine and then *simply drop in a new engine? There are some companies that make electric motors that interface with your transmission and now you have an old vehicle with a new motor!
Before I could make any major decisions like that, though, one of my neighbor’s told me that his friend had been looking for that exact same year and color Explorer after she lost her car in a flood, so I gave it to her. I never really got too far in my research, so I don’t know much about the real cost and extent of work involved in these electric crate engines.
You can’t just throw a crate engine in. My current car (2012 Hyundai Tucson) is a “California engine”. My family is in auto, and we went to a guy who replaced the engines on my uncle’s fleet. $6500 because the engine itself was so hard to source and replace with all the bullshit sensors, and an extra $1k for the rental I needed for 2 weeks while they tracked an engine down.
Oh, hahaha, sorry. The asterisk in front of the “simply” was meant to reference some fake fine print. I totally forgot to add that, so congratulations! You’ve unlocked the hidden fine print!
^*Process description does not include all necessary steps to make motor or car functional. Commenter assumes no responsibility and should not be considered as a reliable source of information.^
Also, I totally feel you on the engine replacement woes. I had an engine rebuilt by Jasper on a mid-90s 4-Runner. I was told that this would ultimately be easier, cheaper, and have better warranty than a new engine. It took over 2 years before I could go more than a week before visiting my mechanic with another issue caused by the incredibly invasive procedure. 4 years later, the block cracked and I just took what I could get at auction.
Surely there’s a better source you could have linked to than Twitter.
Brain Krebs on Mastodon:
Protip: this is a crosspost, OP “linked” to another post on lemmy
They still could have made their own post with a proper article as the post URL rather than directing additional traffic to a right-wing social media platform.
True, just like you could have set up a matrix instead of using a discord for your community.
Aside from the aforementioned Discord server not being directly mine (nor are most of the community’s users on the Threadiverse, unfortunately), not only is there a difference between linking to a community Discord server on an associated Lemmy community versus doing so on a Lemmy news community, but the ownership structure and organizational goals of Discord (its gradual commercialization, walled garden, and degradation aside) are a far cry from Twitter being owned by a fascist, transphobic billionaire largely responsible for getting Trump elected.
That’s a lot of words for, “sorry I was wrong and you were right”
Doubt.
Seems to be affecting a number of individuals. Usually OTAs go through deployment waves, and I’d expect that only certain combos of trims to be affected but it could also be a shit show deployment. Will be interesting to see what happens.
deleted by creator
I don’t get it? Why can’t car companies just release software updates that get deployed with the regular service interval, like once every year or two? That way the repair service or dealership will be close by if problems arise.
Better yet, why don’t they just write the shit competently and correctly the first time?
And don’t tell me it’s too hard; that’s the way real software engineering used to be done when stuff shipped on physical media and couldn’t be patched, and still is done for stuff that actually matters (avionics, etc.). They just want to pretend PC-level half-assery is acceptable because it’s cheaper.
They can, but the point of OTA setups is that you don’t have to anymore, and you save a lot that way because satiate testing is very very expensive. Old PC platforms had a standard of compatibility in how all the hardware worked. So you could test a few variations, and be reasonably assured, or you had a specific version for a particular price of hardware, like c&c machines.
So the new paradigm is about testing your most common setup, then slow rolling out and waiting for complaints. If you broke something, you get the details, fix it, and ship again. The problem here is their release cycle takes too long. This is only viable if you can patch things in a day, if it takes you a month to fix a patch that is turning cars into driveway statues, it more than a handful of cars are affected, you need a new strategy.
The penalty of doing it wrong needs to be higher than the cost of doing jt right.
The kind of quality assurance you’re talking about is astronomically expensive. Software has gotten a lot more complex over the past couple decades. And just because it came on physical media and could not easily be patched doesn’t mean that it didn’t have bugs. Far from it.
The kind of quality assurance you’re talking about is astronomically expensive
That might be a valid argument when talking about accounting software with backups in case of fuck ups. We’re talking about cars, on roads, with people sprinkled all around.
I would suggest against self driving cars for this very reason. The kind of thing in the article is not a hazard while driving.
Because then they’ll actually need to do recalls instead of just patching issues with an update.
