Yeah Owens is a Catholic. You’re not supposed to get visions from dead people in dreams, that’s evangelical snake handling stuff. Adult American concerts to Catholicism have no idea how to do this. I thought it was bad enough when those types wanted to impeach the pope or whatever but now they’re seeing spirit visions?
Getting dreams of the recently deceased and getting dreams and vision of saints are generally considered separate things in Catholic mysticism. The recently deceased in particular are thought to be primed for diabolical influence, where-as the confirmed canonization of a saint is what demonstrates that such visions are divinely inspired, and even then you are meant to share these things first in private with your confessor who will consult with others to determine it’s divinity and authencity, then publicly, if at all.
Getting dreams of the dead isn’t unique to Protestantism, particularly in Counter-Reformation Catholicism, but how she is approaching it as a faith experience is very Protestant.
You are supposed to do a lot of things, but catholics don’t follow those rules as a rule (Heh). (Protestants are also only supposed to derive their understanding of christ from scripture, but American protestantism is like 80% American Civic Religion by weight, and European Lutheranism isn’t any better)
Folk saints are common even when declared explicitly not real saints by the catholic church (Santa Muerte veneration is explicitly blasphemous as per the Catholic church, there are still thousands of shrines in her name), folk catholicism is so pervasive it’s been the subject of study for generations, and basically no saint followed the road you’re “Supposed” to take as a believer to get where they did.
Given that the official saint you did mention did generally follow doctrine outside of being even more strict and pious than surrounded Catholics, there are plenty of saints who followed the road of ecstatic worship, it’s a well trod path in the Church supported by the earliest traditions.
I’m not arguing that other Catholics aren’t also bad at Catholicism, even those brought up in the faith, I’m just saying that Candace Owens is mostly just Catholic for the idea of tradition, less so than any actual adherence to it (outside of the tradition of a lack of adherence to tradition lol).
That said, the idea of there being a Saint Candace Owens based on her having dreams of Charlie Kirk is very funny to me.
I mean I know very little theological stuff but did these people receive direct messages from deceased humans or did they receive spiritual visions of stuff like hell or angels or the virgin mary? Because I feel like those must be considered distinct in Catholicism. Communicating with the dead is like literal necromancy, or like a demon trying to infect your mind, right? Whereas seeing divine visions or insights through God himself, angels, Mary, etc don’t seem like the same thing. Those sound more along the typical speed of what I’d expect.
Joan of Arc’s whole thing was predicated on communicating with several saints. That is straight up communing with the dead, any interaction with a dead saint (which means any saint) would be.
There was a saint who talked to dead people. Saint Anthony of something i think
But also I just googled it and it took me like four seconds to find a catholic priest saying its totally possible for the dead to communicate with you via your dreams.
Yeah Owens is a Catholic. You’re not supposed to get visions from dead people in dreams, that’s evangelical snake handling stuff. Adult American concerts to Catholicism have no idea how to do this. I thought it was bad enough when those types wanted to impeach the pope or whatever but now they’re seeing spirit visions?
You are supposed to get visions from the virgin mary or jesus, silly evangelicals
yeah man fuck saint Teresa of Avila, more like saint… protestantesa and saint Faustina? Pfffft, more like saint… Evangelicalina
Getting dreams of the recently deceased and getting dreams and vision of saints are generally considered separate things in Catholic mysticism. The recently deceased in particular are thought to be primed for diabolical influence, where-as the confirmed canonization of a saint is what demonstrates that such visions are divinely inspired, and even then you are meant to share these things first in private with your confessor who will consult with others to determine it’s divinity and authencity, then publicly, if at all.
Getting dreams of the dead isn’t unique to Protestantism, particularly in Counter-Reformation Catholicism, but how she is approaching it as a faith experience is very Protestant.
You are supposed to do a lot of things, but catholics don’t follow those rules as a rule (Heh). (Protestants are also only supposed to derive their understanding of christ from scripture, but American protestantism is like 80% American Civic Religion by weight, and European Lutheranism isn’t any better) Folk saints are common even when declared explicitly not real saints by the catholic church (Santa Muerte veneration is explicitly blasphemous as per the Catholic church, there are still thousands of shrines in her name), folk catholicism is so pervasive it’s been the subject of study for generations, and basically no saint followed the road you’re “Supposed” to take as a believer to get where they did.
Given that the official saint you did mention did generally follow doctrine outside of being even more strict and pious than surrounded Catholics, there are plenty of saints who followed the road of ecstatic worship, it’s a well trod path in the Church supported by the earliest traditions.
I’m not arguing that other Catholics aren’t also bad at Catholicism, even those brought up in the faith, I’m just saying that Candace Owens is mostly just Catholic for the idea of tradition, less so than any actual adherence to it (outside of the tradition of a lack of adherence to tradition lol).
That said, the idea of there being a Saint Candace Owens based on her having dreams of Charlie Kirk is very funny to me.
I mean I know very little theological stuff but did these people receive direct messages from deceased humans or did they receive spiritual visions of stuff like hell or angels or the virgin mary? Because I feel like those must be considered distinct in Catholicism. Communicating with the dead is like literal necromancy, or like a demon trying to infect your mind, right? Whereas seeing divine visions or insights through God himself, angels, Mary, etc don’t seem like the same thing. Those sound more along the typical speed of what I’d expect.
Joan of Arc’s whole thing was predicated on communicating with several saints. That is straight up communing with the dead, any interaction with a dead saint (which means any saint) would be.
Does that mean Candace Owens believes Charlie Kirk has been canonized
No of course not…he has to be Beatified first
I mean, she was burned at the stake, so …
There was a saint who talked to dead people. Saint Anthony of something i think
But also I just googled it and it took me like four seconds to find a catholic priest saying its totally possible for the dead to communicate with you via your dreams.
On the contrary, This is one of Charlie Kirks documented miracles. He will be canonized as a Catholic saint soon enough