yes this is electoralism and no it doesn’t belong in the newscomm and yes I should nuke the thread but no I won’t because there are some good posts here and I know we all love our posts, don’t we folks.
for any other prospective posters: american primary politics and related rumors is solidly electoralism, not news.
This site needs the ability to move threads between comms
Who care. Fall for it again if you want
Critical support to my electoralist comrades in their efforts to fire right wing Dems from their cushy bullshit jobs (US House of Representatives)
I love it here on hexbear but it’s wild to me how hostile a few of us are to a large group of people getting together weekly to attempt to further the goals of socialism.
Attempting to further Democratic Party entryism is not an attempt to further socialism and I don’t know why we have to keep re-learning this every two weeks.
Let people engage in other tactics, this isn’t worth fighting over
Let people enjoy things! Stop yucking our yum!
If you see your friend smashing their face into a wall to achieve world communism you just gonna let them continue that indefinitely?
Literally reform or revolution. I think lenin, marx and Engels and many many others kinda thought it was a big deal. Oh well.
Since it’s central to what tactics socialists in the west should be using I’d think it would be very much worth fighting over, no?
I mean my main gripe originally was posting this in the news comm with big exclamation marks acting like this is big important news. The headline is literally just “somebody is considering primarying a Democrat!” It’s nothing. Not news even if you are pro-electoralist.
This was met with such doubling down and pushback that the clown on the succ session has to be started up
Just for future reference, if you do not like the post because you disagree with its content or where it was posted you can just report it if you find it egregious enough, or hide it, and then you actually do not have to engage with it for several hours btw
In the future, c/electoralism accepts all posts about rumors of primaries and nobody will make fun of you there
I’m aware of what goes in c/electoralism, I’m a mod there. I posted to a different comm because it has a different audience. Again, you’re absolutely free to ignore any post that induces rage in you for hours at a time, no matter where it is. In fact, I’d recommend you do just that, and everybody’s experience will be much more fruitful.
If you think I’m in egregious violation of the rules for where posts belong, please do report it
I am a mod here and I do think this solidly belongs in electoralism instead of news. That said, I’m loathe to nuke a well populated and generally respectful thread like this. In the future I request you post stories like this to electoralism and, if you must, crosspost your threads in news so that I don’t have to feel bad about blowing them up.
hi this is a fantastic decision that hexbear mods have been historically extremely draconian about so
thank u very much for reading the room and letting the people post!!!Completely reasonable! I don’t think it doesn’t belong in electoralism, I just thought it could be a post that goes in either
Yeah a different audience that specifically cares about relevant news. Not rumors of primaries. We are here, not in electoralism for that reason.
I can reach all kinds of “different audiences” by posting content in the wrong place! Interesting how that works
I can reach all kinds of “different audiences” by posting content in the wrong place!
I’d advise that if you feel so strongly about a post being in the wrong place that you mention it once, report it, then leave, and the community and moderators can decide. Once you do, you are actually free to be on your merry way, unhindered and unburdened by things you don’t want to see.
If you have read this far, frankly, I’m not even sure what you are still doing here other than ragebaiting yourself. You are not trapped here right now on a post you allegedly think is not newsworthy and don’t want to see, nor are you being forced to continue making contributions, both meta and not. What if you just let yourself enjoy the rest of your day by blocking me or ignoring this post on a niche leftist online forum?
Yeah a different audience that specifically cares about relevant news.
I understand this is important to you, so here’s a novel idea moving forward: you leave space and time for the audience of people who do clearly think this subject matter is relevant news, and you can go make a meta post somewhere else where people might commiserate with you? Then there will double the posts in appropriate places with appropriate discussion.
You are now armed with the knowledge that you can happily go continue this discussion elsewhere, or you can simply disengage in this meta tangent you’ve gone down on this post and discuss the subject matter of the post instead.
Threads like these are why I made a rule with myself that if I was going to post on this site I would not turn into the DSA defense brigade lol
May they eventually feel able to win elections without running as Democrats
This is chapter by chapter. My local chapter voted against running candidates on the Dem ticket. And are critical of using limited DSA resources for candidates they know would ultimately be unaccountable to them once elected. I think some members of the chapter might be on here.
How can an organization function as a working class party when half of the chapters are liberals and social fascists?
Half the chapters aren’t. Currently the left is in the majority albeit an uneasy one.
NYC has a large electoralist contingent, and there are problems sometimes reigning them in. There is no working apparatus to discipline electeds. Breaking from the democrats is hotly contested, active debate.
I think you will not find many liberals and “social fascists” (lmfao) in DSA. there is a large, organized, moderate tendency but they aren’t liberals. Def some people are social democrats but that’s different and they aren’t in the majority nationwide. Though there are many in NYC DSA, they would be left progressive social democrats, and their influence is waning due to radicalization pressures everywhere.
But to answer directly, its an experiment
Since the vast majority of “leftists” in the US actually are social fascists I seriously doubt this is true.
Anybody who A) Supports arming and funding Ukraine or B) Cheered when Syria was destroyed or C) Wants a two-state solution or D) supports any American or NATO military action are Social Fascists. Social Fascism, also known as Social Chauvinism, is the tendency within the social-democratic left to be pro-war and to shirk revolutionary defeatism as a duty and concept.
It’s not just an epithet, this is the primary contradiction in the western left and has historically caused it to implode. Almost every collapse and schism of the international left is due to this contradiction. Revolution is literally impossible until this contradiction is resolved in favor of the anti-imperialists.
DSA is absolutely filled with these types
I’m aware of the definition, but i think it is categorical and alienating from material conditions. I’m aware of the contradictions but I don’t shy away from them. That is exactly where we need to be working, forcing the issues politically, representing our principles, building our mass base, and developing the party.
I think this kind of categorical understanding, which Marxism is an advancement over old materialism, is another critical contradiction for the left. it leads to sectarianism, prefiguration, and all kinds of idealism. We aren’t puritans, we don’t avoid contradiction, that is rationalism. We seek out the contradictions because that is where the class struggle lives.
There are plenty of clean breakers and ultraleftists in DSA as well. The reformists need to be confronted and split off from the real movement. But because the political conditions haven’t been developed, they hide within it, maybe even hide from themselves. They need to be exposed to themselves so they can change, or exposed to the movement so it can change, but that isnt going to ever happen without direct, principled struggle.
I’m actually quite averse to the kind of categorizing you are doing here, but also we all have a long way to go. Reformists are still capable of developing certain aspects of the struggle, but we have to take care not to hand the movements to them when the conditions ripen for revolution. Our job is to make sure the people have the power, through a party capable of continuing the struggle.
I believe what your perspective lacks is a coherent theory of change, although to be fair, you can be a good practical organizer and still have some wrongheadedness to work through, I know I do. That is what I see in DSA. There are def some very toxic reformist elements in the org, but you should see how they make utter fools of themselves, how isolated and sectarian they are becoming. I’m more worried about the opportunistic center than the social democratic “party surrogates” at this moment. But there is nothing to be accomplished standing outside of the struggle and trying to define it by putting things into categories. It is un-marxist, and doesn’t meet the moment with a practical analysis to take action.
Why would the struggle take place in a social reformist organization and not in a communist party with Democratic centralism as an organizing principle as it has always been done historically? Where is there even a single example of a successful revolution that emerged from a social reformist non-party and not from a communist party?
This is just the logic of revisionism. Every Western leftist generation thinks they need to reinvent socialism and reinvent Marx and Lenin. Oh isn’t it convenient how we always have to “modernize” to the right, back to the same dead end social reformism that existed for hundreds of years without even a single success to its name. Why is this “modernization” never to the left? Or along a new axis? It’s always just back to Berniecrat shit over and over.
Again, categorizing. Every communist party had to break from its reformism, through a process of struggle. There are communists within DSA, in fact I’d say the majority of active members are Marxists. Where have communist parties come from? Do they emerge fully formed? Do you think that by knowing things you can change the conditions automatically? I promise you, any active DSA member would probably agree with you some, if not totally. The difference is that is where the struggle is for us. If that’s not where it is for you, that’s fine. I work with other tendencies all the time. But it is an experiment, and you can’t see the future. If you think myself and my comrades are social chauvinists, you are out of touch. Look up Springs of Revolution, and call them social chauvinists. If the rest of the org was, then SoR wouldn’t have been able to affect it, but they did, their influence and lives experience in decolonizing struggle has changed the org dramatically in a short time.
DSA is becoming a party, we just aren’t there yet. If it fails to become one at the critical time, it will likely trigger a crisis in the org. The party question and party discipline is on the tip of every active member’s tongue. Local party committees are being formed all over the country.
DSA is far from perfect and we would love it if they had some of the same internal structures as more radical communist parties. DemCent is no longer banned (it was always a joke and a trick played by the Harringtonites) so that is changing internal democracy dramatically. Also its not like other american left parties aren’t complete fucking basket cases. PSL has a ton of problems, cpusa tails the democrats too. SAlt is imploding under its own traditions, the Kshama faction that split to form WDM are arguably the more sectarian faction. But you gotta respect the audaciousness, which DSA seriously lacks. Meanwhile, Our numbers are growing and progressives are being radicalized in DSA, educated and organized. All of these groups have problems but that’s just the USamerican left! We are a baby that has been aborted over and over and over.
I’m in DSA to change it. I’m a deep entryist. Maybe that’s wrong but that’s what got me here, in the struggle. It changed me an I try to change it. We need to stop putting abstract things in abstract boxes like some bourgeois, and center human experience, like Marx instructed. Study Theses on Feuerbach, Friere, Fanon.
Like you’re right about certain things, in a very narrow way, but I can tell you aren’t basing your analysis on an unfiltered assessment of material relationships. You aren’t defining things by their relationships, but by their parameters. This is static thinking, we need to be dynamic and practical, always. Any thinking that prevents our acting is counter revolutionary, and therefore bourgeois.
If you want me to listen to you, you are going to have to demonstrate a better understanding of actual conditions. Or better yet, share your own experiences so we can come together and take something new back into our own organizing.
Well a recent resolution is now supposed to be a way to reign in electeds and requires candidates be anti-Zionist as an endorsement requirement. Yet to be enforced and unsure if it is retroactive but it did pass
I know, I voted for it!
The trend has been candidates are real buddy buddy with their local volunteers but whenever the org tries to enforce discipline they go dark, or pull some backroom shenanigans.
If AOC runs for president it will be an interesting test, she will have to come out against Israel (she won’t) and DSA will have to not endorse. But since the org was historically, from the Mike Harrington days, a pro-zionist org, it was a dramatic step toward something coherent and meaningful. We lost a lot of good pro-palestine organizers after 2023 when we didn’t pass the anti Zionist resolution.
The 2025 res was much better, but also the stakes are more urgently real also. Its disappointing we couldn’t meet the moment back then, but I’m glad the org can respond in a meaningful way to those stakes, rather than retreat into Utopian idealism which runs rampant in our movements
If AOC gets the nod from DSA it’s a severe indictment of the DSA, not that there isn’t plenty of ammunition there already since the DSA is a white supremacist project in the first place.
Ironically enough, I think AOC coming out as anti-Israel openly in a presidential run would HELP a campaign and be the first steps towards actually harnessing the left populism Bernie was so afraid of.
And I’m just talking about right now. If trends indicate anything, by the time campaigning season comes around the issue will be even more pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. But we NEED that anti-Zionism commitment to work, desperately.
Totally agree, on all points. It would be amazing to see AOC come out as anti-Zionist in a presidential campaign, but I’m really just too used to electeds being a big disappointment. Doesn’t keep me from helping with campaigns, but we need to be able to build strong cadre candidates, and enforce discipline.
Getting there will be a process, and there are small pockets and opportunities appearing everywhere, more and more. And that’s what makes this work so interesting and meaningful.
You’re saying a minority of the DSA are “democratic socialists”?
No a minority are social democrats, who identify as democratic socialists. And most of them are strong, active, reliable organizers
My impression of DSAers has been genuine people who want a better future, but most of them are not online and don’t have strong views on socialist sects and tendencies. Those of us who are nerds that are more versed in theory often talk about how socialism is a mass movement and we can’t gatekeep the revolution.
Because DSA folks don’t read the theory you see some boneheaded moves (less and less as the left actually gets a foothold), and due to the political climate in American occupied territories, the left in general has a labor aristocratic class character (to be very polite about it).
It’s not like there’s an alternative anyway.
Accurate assessment. Look at the members, organizing work, and statements of the various committees and caucuses and you’ll see the more “radical” and ideologically driven organizers do most of the heavy lifting in the org.
I mean…yes. But there is no lack of effort to counter all these tendencies. Even moderates point out these problems within the org. Internal struggle is working, even prominent moderate electoralist caucuses are leading Marxist reading groups.
Theory heads like us have our own problems, we easily become sectarian, we often are not self critical enough of our own ideas, we subscribe to all sorts of idealism, usually via intellectualism, we use “Marxism” or “dialectical materialism” in a way that actually alienates us from the real struggle.
But yeah compared to like the Russian rsdlp, we are like at 1895, maybe? Probably not even that far since the ambient narodnikism in the country at least made revolutionaries really fucking serious. We are all just volunteers, but for a few exceptions.
I read this article by J Cannon this week, has a lot of really prescient points. https://www.marxists.org/archive/cannon/works/1925/sitdiff.htm
We advanced beyond this by 1935, but 10 or so years later we regressed basically all the way back, and now, even further behind.
They do other stuff besides endorse democrats.
Post that stuff to this comm and you will find a much different response.
Interesting how the post about DSA Democrat electoralism is the one where we criticize democrat electoralist tendencies in the DSA
Nobody thinks of the DSA as a working class party
The people who want it to be are working on reforms to purge/marginalize the liberals but that hasn’t happened across the org yet.
But it is very clearly happening over time. Despite not making up a majority of DSA membership, most committees are run by ideologically driven caucus members, which despite their difference between caucuses, all fall much farther to the left than the rank and file DSA member.
Most internal DSA elections are dominated by the left caucuses, which is a good thing for base building while simultaneously using the dues and manpower of otherwise more liberal membership to take more left leaning public action and positions.
This is just a lie. The DSA is liberal, it’s always been liberal, and there’s no reason to think it ever won’t be liberal.
I’m going to be honest with you: I don’t think you have any idea what active DSA membership actually looks like. DSA is not the American socialist party of the future, but it’s very obvious that within it an actual socialist party is incubating amongst the Marxist membership who are, by far, the most active members and objectively constitute a majority in committee representation and caucus representation
If your group calls itself “democratic socialists” to distance itself from the evil USSR I don’t know what to tell you
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It’s not a highly centralized organization at this point in time because the most important task in the imperial core is deprogramming decades of antisocialist propaganda. Keeping the org decentralized in this way at this point in time allows each chapter to have a unique local approach that brings more people on board with the left in general and opens the door for further base building, which has undeniably taken off in the past ten years as DSA’s numbers (and thus dues) have risen dramatically. The demographics of the org have also dramatically changed from older white people to a more diverse crowd of younger people who are increasing the visibility of socialism to the next generation
One can ask the same about the Mensheviks before their split
So is the goal to heighten the contradictions in the DSA and cause a split when they pick a social chauvinist line in a moment of crisis so their membership can radicalize and join a better org?
I don’t agree with Trot-esque entryism with the intention of splitting, but that doesn’t sound like what the pro-DSA people here are arguing for. Is the comparison to the Mensheviks supposed to be flattering to the DSA? Do we have unironic menshevik stans here?
The difference is that it isn’t trot-esque entryism though. It happened as a natural progression of actual marxists becoming the most prominently represented groups within active DSA membership. There are some actual trots in the org that do feel that way for sure and are doing entryism, but the natural growth of DSA has brought it to this point, and as you can see represented in this thread, the main split within the DSA Left-right divide is on electoralism under the Democrat label. Dems will end that one day and that will probably result in the internal DSA crisis that ends with a DSA split
I mean, probably a split between the DSA right and the DSA left rather than joining any existing org. Like, this multi-tendency left coalition emerged last convention: https://sordsa.org/ which points to the politics such an org might have
I think the big thing is going to be when the democrats finally kick out DSA affiliated folks and the question is going to be “leave the party?” Vs “stay in, move right, and keep the campaigning apparatus”
I just responded to the same comment as you before reading what you wrote and I agree that’s exactly where the split will happen. Dems will categorically refuse DSA participation at some point if Marxists keep directing the majority of DSA’s future, as they have been the past few years when they are the majority of internal representation.
There has been a nudge towards that split already on a break with Dems during the Zohran campaign. There was discussion on what to do if he lost the primary by a small margin. He was still eligible to run on the Working Families Party ballot line and there was some intern NYC-DSA discussion on whether we should pursue that apart from the Dems in the general election, and the divisions on it were pretty much right down that DSA right-left line where we’d expect to see them.
DSA is makes the distinction to not call themselves a party
Then remove that word, how can an organization fight for the working class when half of the chapters are liberals and social fascists?
De-liberalizing political education is available at every DSA branch I’ve encountered
Remove what word from where?
the word party from my post
I’m trying but I haven’t figured out how to edit it
Chapter by chapter approach is probably for the best right now as base building grows. Some have far more organization and resources at their disposal to engage in projects like electoralism, like NYC-DSA.
I think there’s a real possibility for cooperation between DSA and PSL on this point that I think some locals chapters are in a prime position to exploit.
The DSA is a club, not a political party. Unless it’s members run as independents, they need a Party to run under in most cases. And while DSA can be good for building organizing skills, because of their lack of ideological discipline they lack the ability to create disciplined ideologues and are prone to endorsing opportunists.
While DSA members cannot join the PSL or vice-versa, there is no rule against DSA endorsing PSL candidates for office or members volunteering for their campaigns. And while PSL branches cannot endorse non-PSL candidates, a common workaround is publishing a “Peoples’s Program” of local political demands and asking local candidates to endorse the Party Program.
In both the Cleveland and Akron branches of the DSA, most active members are either with the Marxist Unity Group (Trots) or Red Star Caucus (MLs). They have different organizational goals from the PSL but, overall, they’re Good. I don’t want to necessarily generalize my local experience to the entire country, but it seems that the DSA is heading in a more explicitly Marxist direction and I look forward to a future where the DSA serves as a part of the PSL’s party periphery.
I agree completely. The majority of DSA committees are held by caucused membership, which are almost exclusively hard left when compared to the uncaucused DSA rank and file. It sets DSA’s course to left for sure, as these caucuses are largely responsible for the political agenda DSA engages in.
The biggest internal debate within DSA is about electoralism, and I don’t see it being large enough to fracture the org because it is so decentralized. As the org grows, I do see it gaining the ability to wield party-like level control of politics in some strongholds. Popular Front style DSA-PSL campaigns where groundwork could go a loooooooong way in places like NYC where a ground game can essentially unseat any incumbent politician. This in combination with the Working Families Party, there is essentially a party apparatus waiting to be used behind the “Smash Glass In Case Of Working Class Politics” sign.
We actually came quite close to using this in NYC this mayoral election cycle should Zohran have lost the primary. We were strongly considering throwing our weight behind running him on the Working Families Party ticket in the 4 way general election. Turns out he was too popular for that to be necessary lol
While DSA members cannot join the PSL or vice-versa
This is not true actually. At the most recent DSA National Convention this year the anti-democratic centralism clause was repealed, so there is no problem being both part of DSA and PSL anymore
PSL still has a no dual membership clause
PSL doesn’t allow dual membership with another organization with democratic centralism, but DSA doesn’t have anything like that and isn’t a political party so it’s fine as far as I know. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though
That’s very interesting wording that I think will end up being very relevant if/when the DSA split happens
Honestly I’m not sure if this changes the policy or not
DSA may allow it now but I don’t think PSL does.
Oh FR? That’s actually awesome idk how I missed that
In the works as base building and non-electoral work grows
“Works”
Yet to be determined lol
So we’ve been told, but we keep seeing Ds. Veremos
Ritchie Torres is just one rep and afaik not one with much power, but he’s known nationally for being an over-the-top Zionist. Defeating him might just be symbolic but I think it would a mistake to disregard symbolic victories. They absolutely matter.
It’s like with Zohran, even if he’s stymied and isn’t able to accomplish much, just someone with a class-conscious platform enjoying electoral success means something. It shows people are hungry for change and are more open to our ideas about class and society. And a symbolic win can give a good morale boost to all of us and help in all facets of the work we are trying to do.
Of course there are non-negotiables. If someone who identifies as a socialist is able to win material improvements for their constituents, that is good for us and building class consciousness. Someone who identifies as a Socialist makes some pro-Zionist comments? That is bad for us (and evil ofc) and there absolutely needs to be consequences. I just cannot vibe with the stark black and white thinking around electoralism that some of you have.
There is so much work to be done here in order to build the class consciousness necessary to be the foundation of revolution. Avoiding the political sphere (or any sphere) is intentionally ceding ground to our class enemies.
I just cannot vibe with the stark black and white thinking around electoralism that some of you have.
I don’t have a problem with electoralism, I have a problem with self-described “socialists” who make the decision to run as candidates for non-socialist parties. There are actually socialist parties they could run for, there is no excuse for this shit.
The same Zohran who just pledged to slash the department of education in favor of the NYPD. Yeah good ok
source? i find this hard to believe
I’m going off of a thread I read here yesterday about how he intends to maintain current NYPD numbers and to conduct a thorough line by line audit of the department of education budget to find waste to cut.
Caused a bit of a struggle session.
Never thought I’d be not online enough
Can’t find the thread you’re talking about or any major news stories other than this:
unless you have some kind of stronger backing…? “pledged to slash the department of education” sounds pretty fanciful
No this wasn’t it and when I tried a cursory google search I got the same thing. Sorry I don’t have a source for you but the thrust of it was Mamdani did an interview and said the NYPD would be fully funded and the DoEd would be thoroughly audited for waste. The argument here was whether or not that meant cuts and I think it’s pretty clear it does.
I should have saved the link but the latest bernard acting like the latest bernard is very unremarkable at least to me.
i find your eagerness to propagate negativity on specious evidence to be kinda cynical and i question how you think it helps anything
These meager and disappointing gains have and only will turn people away.
Some folks will gain class consciousness sure, but then they will become demoralized when the object of their support proves ineffective in an electoral system designed to please private interest, and placate the public into passivity- not push material conditions to new heights.
Even if the purported best case scenario takes place- and material conditions improve for the average person, we will be worse off.
Mass class consciousness in the united states can only be born of political unrest, and that unrest will not come easily if americans are comfortable.
We are not to do nothing however, for now it’s best that we continue to grow our own circles both locally and nationally, agitate, and be ready to pull people out of the future’s rubble- taking advantage of what is clearly inevitable: amerikkka’s self destruction.
It’s best we continue to grow in our own circles… be ready to pull people out of the future’s rubble
I don’t think it’s crazy say that in the time of the largest wealth disparity in U.S. history and housing affordability crisis, that an unapologetic socialist actually freezing millions of people’s rents for years is what pulling people from the rubble looks like. Removed from the fact it happened as a result of electoralism, that would be hailed as an enormous victory for base building opportunities in all other scenarios. I think that’s exactly why Zohran rode a meteoric rise to success. Electoralism is not the final answer, but it is one of many tools, and we’d be stupid not to use it
critical support to the DSA because this would be very funny if they pull it off
Finally a post in this thread I can agree with
I wish the DSA luck in its efforts to pry the Zionist ticks out of their seats.
As annoying as Torres is, Jeffries is the far more important one to boot out immediately. Schumer has to be forcefully evicted as well.
I’ll be honest though. If the proposed replacements aren’t solidly hardline anti-Israel, anti-imperialist, anti-ICE (abolition AND MORE IMPORTANTLY prosecution of every single person connected even tangentially to it), etc. then… why bother? Getting a less assholish asshole is still getting an asshole. Lesser evil stuff repeated. I find it infinitely hard to believe anyone with (D) in their title will be even close to my personal criteria above despite that stuff polling well. Especially explicitly anti-Israel. It’s got like 96% democrat voter support. You’d probably get elected just saying you’ll propose a bill yearly to carpet bomb Tel Aviv. Like that Roman senator who used to always say “Oh, just one more thing. We must destroy Carthage” or whatever. Nerds know who I mean. The famous asshole. This time for good.
I 100% agree with everything you said
Personally, I think a challenge to Jeffries is coming alongside a challenge to Schumer. The way AOC is posturing seems as though a run for president or senate is coming. AOC isn’t perfect but would be a hell of a lot better than Schumer and wouldn’t take a ton of heavy DSA lifting to win that election. If she were able to campaign alongside somebody challenging Jeffries in NY I think it would be a pretty easy two-for-one campaign.
“Isn’t perfect” lmfao
I supposed we’d prefer Chuck Schumer
I’d prefer Chuck Schumer be in a gas chamber but saying AOC isn’t perfect is like saying Mitt Romney isn’t quite as progressive as we’d like.
Trying to figure out what a beliefs a person has who wants to see DSA dissolve but not AOC prominently fail
Didn’t say I want the DSA to dissolve or that I want AOC to fail, I just don’t see what liberal infighting has to do with socialism. I will admit I’d like to see fake socialists discredited because I think that actually helps us.
If AOC was the right wing of the democrats things would definitely be better. I’m not a New Yorker but if she replaced Schumer that would be a good thing for sure. Schumer has quite literally done nothing positive in his position for however long that’s been. I want to say 8-12 years. I used to wonder what that piece of shit was even doing in politics. Now I get it. He just loves Israel.
Wym? He officially renamed the Big Beautiful Bill even though everybody still calls it that
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israel delenda est
Political impotency with praxis paint
Any expected positive outcomes from this are the result of a uniquely american collective amnesia
The best that can be hoped out of this is that the rise in left adjacent electoralism stokes fear in the moderate and fascist right, provoking a tragedy that would do more for class consciousness and solidarity, than years of short lived legislative and electoral gains ever could
the fear of the moderate and fascist right has already started to stoke the coals on class consciousness, people who are ardently anti-electoral in any sense just don’t think they’re seeing the results of it because they can’t fathom that electoralism doesn’t exist in a vacuum and will change who it presents to represent changing material conditions.
Electoral reformism doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it exists as a release valve to consume that energy and displace it towards ends that are not threatening to the ruling class.
Whenever communists historically participated in bourgeois elections they did so as communists, under a communist party. Not as stray cat “leftists” or within the Democrat Party (or equivalent Liberal-Fascist Party). They did so fully expecting to be ratfucked and cheated out of any victory they may obtain, but most importantly they did not conceal their beliefs or put their hopes into whatever random opportunists happened to volunteer to advance their own positions.
Rent freeze and free childcare are a little more than a release valve, they open up the actual ability to further organize and take the kinds of political and social risks that go a long way to keeping socialist sentiment down in the US
You’re not wrong but let me know when there’s a realistic chance of that happening
January 1st, 2026 when Zohran is sworn in and can appoint the balance changing vote of the Rent Guidelines Board with the single at-will appointee that serves at the mayors behest, thus changing the voting balance of the Rent Guidelines board from 5-4 in favor of raising the rent to 5-4 in favor of freezing the rent
Just wanna say for what it’s worth I really hope I’m apologizing to you on January 1st
Well, rent won’t feeeze on the first since the latest guidelines board voted to raise it by that one, critical vote this year, but it won’t go up after that so I guess technically the rent freeze isn’t in effect until it gets voted on again later that year, but yeah that’s how it works so just be wary of that around the end of next year unless the appointment is enough itself
Almost all gains for the working class in American history were achieved through rioting, labor pressure and strikes and competition against the USSR. Basically none of it was achieved through social Democrat electioneering
Very true.
Now here’s an instance where if you go for 5 a minute walk on a Tuesday one (1) time you could freeze the rent for millions of proletarians, potentially including yourself, for years and also stop billions of dollars from going into the pockets of the local landlord class. The other option is the opposite of all of that happens and rents go up, including your own, and landlords get billions of dollars.
Pretty straightforward and easy choice to make. If you don’t do this you are actually playing yourself, or are so privileged that several hundred dollars a month extra in your pocket mean nothing to you.
Yeah it’s just about 5 minutes of showing up. That’s all electoralism is. It isn’t a drain of millions of dollars of resources and thousands of hours of volunteer labor! And it certainly isn’t the crux of the social reformist worldview about how change is done, which you proselytize to the detriment of all other forms of activism. No way is it the underlying principle around which you convince others to organize
yeah spending thousands of hours volunteering and forming working political relationships with likeminded explicit socialists with common goals in your community is a terrible idea, no one should do it
Election already happened big dawg. Candidate is on the ballot. I doubt you are doing any electoral organizing given how clear you’ve made your stance on the subject.
Because of the hard work of other leftists, it would just be a 5 minute walk for you to freeze your own rent, the rent of millions of proletarians, and keep billions of dollars out of the pockets of landlord.
Armchair Leftist Final Boss type thought process to not simply participate at that point
Critical support to DSA libs seeking to unseat AIPAC Shakur.
The only other candidate i’ve heard about was Jose Vega, and he claims to be a LaRouschite, and I still dont know what that is.
My comparison is that LaRouchites were the magacommunists of the Reagan Era. Lyndon LaRouche seems similar to Jackson Hinkle.
Wow that’s actually a really apt comparison and I’m stealing that
I’m pretty sure that Jose Vega has also collaborated with Jackson Hinkle.
Probably, but this isn’t about Jose Vega thankfully
Oh I highly highly recommend browsing the Wikipedia article on the LaRouche movement. It’s an incredible read and several times more nonsensical than you can imagine. Part of the movement revolves around the dialectical differences between Plato and Aristotle lmao
Oh and at this point would it surprise you if I mentioned LaRouche started his journey in political beliefs as a trot?
Anyway, as for other candidates nothing is official yet, just internal discussions surrounding fielding a candidate. A lot hinges on how much Mamdani momentum we can carry after the upcoming mayoral election in November
trot
The trot to neocon pipeline remains real
ok ya i came here to mention this dude. i really wanted some serious opposition to Ritchie Torres, but not a LaRouchie. i mean if he somehow unseats ritchie torres, then critical support…but LaRouchites out there giving commies a bad name
To be clear, I am not talking about the LaRouchite in this post, but a different challenger
True Anon made an episode about the founder of the movement, it’s wacky as hell https://youtu.be/pLbdG_ppvhg
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Critical support to the
c/electoralism
There’s significant enough overlap between this being newsworthy and electoralism to end up in either
Even if I conceded American electoralism was newsworthy, maybe post when they are actually doing something or win?
“Setting up to primary” and “rumors of eyeing seats” is not news
The largest socialist organization in the imperial core setting up to remove prominent national political figures from power is newsworthy on a leftist forum
DSA is a liberal org, not a socialist one.
Let’s dissolve the org and take any semblance of the left existing out of the public eye! Being completely unheard of in a nation where legitimacy is essentially doled out for existing in the public eye will be great for base building, I’m sure
I’m sure portraying liberalism as socialism is a valid strategy.
I’m sure portraying even the idea of socialism as nonexistent in the mind of the average proletarian is an even more valid strategy.
DSA is the largest social chauvinist organization, the vast majority of its membership are paper only and of those that are active, a large contingent are NATO-loving imperialist fascists. The candidates they have put into congress have consistently endorsed genocide and war. They have no control or recall mechanism either (because they’re not an actual political party), so when AOCIA goes full zionist there’s nothing they can do about it. We have seen a consistent pattern of the DSA being used as a campaigning tool and then abandoned by careerists. There’s no mechanism to actually enforce that they stay principled and don’t sell out, so of course the majority will quickly sell out.
Many of the DSA endorsed candidates don’t even come from the DSA. They are just people who show up, say “how do you do fellow socialists?” and get a bunch of free campaign volunteers. Definitely not a problematic system that will result in burn out and disillusionment from the membership when the people they worked so hard for win, and then promptly tack to the center and dump the DSA baggage.
“Nooo I didn’t mean defund the police and ICE. I was just saying it cause everyone else was. Nooo I didn’t mean globalize the intifada, I’ve learned and I’ve grown. Look, Israel needs defensive weapons so that they can survive to reform their system and form a two-state solution. Of course Hamas needs to be dismantled first, they are a terrorist organization”
And again, “setting up to remove” is not news. Post when they actually accomplish something
Great point, it’s actually way more important that we remain more afraid of doing anything wrong ever instead of actively attempting to normalize the idea of socialism to one of the most antisocialist propagandized populations on the planet.
Somebody will be mayor of NYC regardless of what we do, so we should actually just let serial sex pest Andrew Cuomo roll into office as mayor of one of the most important cities on the planet instead of somebody whose candidacy at the very least mobilized 50000 unique volunteers to rally behind an unabashed socialist in the heart of the imperial core.
Yes, we should actually raise rents on rent stabilized units representing 40% of apartments across the city, and we should not fight to extend free childcare to millions of children and their families all because Zohran wouldn’t go on The View and say Death to Amerikkka, NYC will be pursuing a nuclear weapons program to glass Tel Aviv, and the N/W line will be extended to LaGuardia using the bones of former NYPD officers who were subject to revolutionary tribunal as its elevated tracks.
I would be elated if this method works to produce socialism though. Inshallah you will put me on trial one day as a class traitor for attempting to do something when I could have just been doing nothing instead 🧎♂️➡️
This kinda sounds like how a Dem would try to convince me to vote for Kamala.
Damn that’s crazy because you kinda sound like how my landlord would try to convince me i should give him more money every month
do you ever stop and re-read the shit you type and realize you sound identical to libs complaining about the loonie left?
Yes, I did reread it and think you actually have a great point.
You’ve totally changed my mind. All electoralism is inherently evil. If the working class is crying out for the boot to be removed from their neck, as principled socialists we absolutely should make sure they know that we actually don’t care. Should the opportunity to make the quality of life and organizing conditions of the working class better arise organically from ideas the working class has, and they are pursuable with almost no effort, we should resoundingly say
“I’m sorry, but I’m a principled socialist. You idiot proletarians will indeed be paying more in rent this year. Yes I know it is an overwhelmingly popular idea amongst you workers, and one might think getting a letter in your mailbox that says ’Your rent isn’t going up this year because socialists have your back.’ would appear to be a good thing for the movement, but actually that’s bad for you. Trust. Rent is due on the 1st btw.”
Largest socialist organization in the west? and its the DSA…
Absolute wild statement. Americans truly piss on the floor and call it a flood.
I mean if we are talking about the imperial core AND its immediate periphery then yeah it isn’t the largest, but I’m clearly talking about the imperial core of the United States of America
it isnt lol
Yeah by that definition, all electoralism content could be “newsworthy”
Reminds me of the news articles about democrats making some kind of statement like “Republicans are fiscally irresponsible and hypocrites about the budgets” and then the headlines of news articles about it are all “Democrat SLAMS Republican in scathing condemnation”
Or, hypothetically, someone posting in the News mega “mamadani DESTROYS the view on Gaza” and it’s him being a liberal zionist again
A lot of it is newsworthy though
So why are there two different comms?
So the news comm doesnt get too filled with too many posts of US (and other countries too) electoral proceses
Elections and election results from non-core nations are actually relevant news that can impact geopolitics and require analysis. People considering maybe primarying a couple congress people in the core is not.
I hate electoral news on my feed so much that I will engage with it for several hours today
Squares and rectangles
All news is news, some news is electoralism related, not all electoralism is news.
