So is the goal to heighten the contradictions in the DSA and cause a split when they pick a social chauvinist line in a moment of crisis so their membership can radicalize and join a better org?
I don’t agree with Trot-esque entryism with the intention of splitting, but that doesn’t sound like what the pro-DSA people here are arguing for. Is the comparison to the Mensheviks supposed to be flattering to the DSA? Do we have unironic menshevik stans here?
The difference is that it isn’t trot-esque entryism though. It happened as a natural progression of actual marxists becoming the most prominently represented groups within active DSA membership. There are some actual trots in the org that do feel that way for sure and are doing entryism, but the natural growth of DSA has brought it to this point, and as you can see represented in this thread, the main split within the DSA Left-right divide is on electoralism under the Democrat label. Dems will end that one day and that will probably result in the internal DSA crisis that ends with a DSA split
I mean, probably a split between the DSA right and the DSA left rather than joining any existing org. Like, this multi-tendency left coalition emerged last convention: https://sordsa.org/ which points to the politics such an org might have
I think the big thing is going to be when the democrats finally kick out DSA affiliated folks and the question is going to be “leave the party?” Vs “stay in, move right, and keep the campaigning apparatus”
I just responded to the same comment as you before reading what you wrote and I agree that’s exactly where the split will happen. Dems will categorically refuse DSA participation at some point if Marxists keep directing the majority of DSA’s future, as they have been the past few years when they are the majority of internal representation.
There has been a nudge towards that split already on a break with Dems during the Zohran campaign. There was discussion on what to do if he lost the primary by a small margin. He was still eligible to run on the Working Families Party ballot line and there was some intern NYC-DSA discussion on whether we should pursue that apart from the Dems in the general election, and the divisions on it were pretty much right down that DSA right-left line where we’d expect to see them.
So is the goal to heighten the contradictions in the DSA and cause a split when they pick a social chauvinist line in a moment of crisis so their membership can radicalize and join a better org?
I don’t agree with Trot-esque entryism with the intention of splitting, but that doesn’t sound like what the pro-DSA people here are arguing for. Is the comparison to the Mensheviks supposed to be flattering to the DSA? Do we have unironic menshevik stans here?
The difference is that it isn’t trot-esque entryism though. It happened as a natural progression of actual marxists becoming the most prominently represented groups within active DSA membership. There are some actual trots in the org that do feel that way for sure and are doing entryism, but the natural growth of DSA has brought it to this point, and as you can see represented in this thread, the main split within the DSA Left-right divide is on electoralism under the Democrat label. Dems will end that one day and that will probably result in the internal DSA crisis that ends with a DSA split
I mean, probably a split between the DSA right and the DSA left rather than joining any existing org. Like, this multi-tendency left coalition emerged last convention: https://sordsa.org/ which points to the politics such an org might have
I think the big thing is going to be when the democrats finally kick out DSA affiliated folks and the question is going to be “leave the party?” Vs “stay in, move right, and keep the campaigning apparatus”
I just responded to the same comment as you before reading what you wrote and I agree that’s exactly where the split will happen. Dems will categorically refuse DSA participation at some point if Marxists keep directing the majority of DSA’s future, as they have been the past few years when they are the majority of internal representation.
There has been a nudge towards that split already on a break with Dems during the Zohran campaign. There was discussion on what to do if he lost the primary by a small margin. He was still eligible to run on the Working Families Party ballot line and there was some intern NYC-DSA discussion on whether we should pursue that apart from the Dems in the general election, and the divisions on it were pretty much right down that DSA right-left line where we’d expect to see them.