Again, categorizing. Every communist party had to break from its reformism, through a process of struggle. There are communists within DSA, in fact I’d say the majority of active members are Marxists. Where have communist parties come from? Do they emerge fully formed? Do you think that by knowing things you can change the conditions automatically? I promise you, any active DSA member would probably agree with you some, if not totally. The difference is that is where the struggle is for us. If that’s not where it is for you, that’s fine. I work with other tendencies all the time. But it is an experiment, and you can’t see the future. If you think myself and my comrades are social chauvinists, you are out of touch. Look up Springs of Revolution, and call them social chauvinists. If the rest of the org was, then SoR wouldn’t have been able to affect it, but they did, their influence and lives experience in decolonizing struggle has changed the org dramatically in a short time.
DSA is becoming a party, we just aren’t there yet. If it fails to become one at the critical time, it will likely trigger a crisis in the org. The party question and party discipline is on the tip of every active member’s tongue. Local party committees are being formed all over the country.
DSA is far from perfect and we would love it if they had some of the same internal structures as more radical communist parties. DemCent is no longer banned (it was always a joke and a trick played by the Harringtonites) so that is changing internal democracy dramatically. Also its not like other american left parties aren’t complete fucking basket cases. PSL has a ton of problems, cpusa tails the democrats too. SAlt is imploding under its own traditions, the Kshama faction that split to form WDM are arguably the more sectarian faction. But you gotta respect the audaciousness, which DSA seriously lacks. Meanwhile, Our numbers are growing and progressives are being radicalized in DSA, educated and organized. All of these groups have problems but that’s just the USamerican left! We are a baby that has been aborted over and over and over.
I’m in DSA to change it. I’m a deep entryist. Maybe that’s wrong but that’s what got me here, in the struggle. It changed me an I try to change it. We need to stop putting abstract things in abstract boxes like some bourgeois, and center human experience, like Marx instructed. Study Theses on Feuerbach, Friere, Fanon.
Like you’re right about certain things, in a very narrow way, but I can tell you aren’t basing your analysis on an unfiltered assessment of material relationships. You aren’t defining things by their relationships, but by their parameters. This is static thinking, we need to be dynamic and practical, always. Any thinking that prevents our acting is counter revolutionary, and therefore bourgeois.
If you want me to listen to you, you are going to have to demonstrate a better understanding of actual conditions. Or better yet, share your own experiences so we can come together and take something new back into our own organizing.
You have a very sober and realistic take on what DSA actually is and are clearly speaking from the same experience with it I have. Yes there are liberals and social fascists in DSA. They will not be a part of any future socialist party unless they grow ideologically into the actual left. Anybody who has spent any time getting to know actual active DSA members knows a significant fraction, if not outright majority of active membership are not just liberals. In the meantime, I’m glad the dues of the liberals are funding the org as a place for actual marxists, as much as many disagree in tactics, to staff most important committees and caucuses. The party question is growing larger every day, and we even are beginning to see once local Marxist caucuses pivot towards a nationwide position.
I don’t think we believe DSA will be the socialist party of the American future, but at this point it is very obvious incubator that is most likely to have some sort of actual prominent socialist party apparatus grow out of it.
Its been very nice participating in this discussion with you! I agree, we are very much on the same page.
I witnessed a factional dispute over (among many other things) whether DSA would eventually split into its reformist and revolutionary tendencies, and it was so messy I honestly just try to put it out of my mind. The side that argued that a split was inevitable (while still not explicitly calling for that split) was very prefigurative and categorically objective (you can see this is my nemesis.) Having been a delegate in 2023 and 2025 showed me that the org is changing for the better. Its changed me, it is changing others, it is a very interesting time, decades are happening. I’ll burn that bridge when it comes, and I know what side I’ll be on.
I’m a little worried about the next phase of probably illegalist organizing, but also we are in a position to allow ourselves to be honed by those conditions and not destroyed by them. The fact that no one seems to understand what we actually are, neither opponents on the right or left, seems like a dynamic advantage of our movement. And the way democratic socialism is appearing in other parts of the world shows to me that it is part of the international movement. We have a long way to go, as others have mentioned we are to white and middle class, and while i think that is also changing its still a while until we reach the tipping point. The line between the soc dems and the dem socs is becoming brighter and more assertive, and the left is ascendent everywhere. I don’t yet know how to translate that into hope for people who aren’t involved.
But I was doing some list work a couple days after CK got shot, and I was talking to a trans woman labor organizer, DSA member from the Midwest. She had organizer her planned parenthood where she worked, was a delegate and cochair of her chapter’s labor working group. When I asked her about the increased violent rhetoric from the right, she was basically completely unphased. “There’s already a huge target on my back, for me, nothing has changed.” Meanwhile all my software developer progressive friends are like “oh god what do we do its illegal to not be a fascist now.” I love my friends, and would love it if they joined us, but that woman inspired me so much. Without her and those like her (like all the badass trans comrades in my caucus R&R, Sarah Milner on NPC!) all I would have is old books and strong opinions. Alongside them, we have a job to do.
Again, categorizing. Every communist party had to break from its reformism, through a process of struggle. There are communists within DSA, in fact I’d say the majority of active members are Marxists. Where have communist parties come from? Do they emerge fully formed? Do you think that by knowing things you can change the conditions automatically? I promise you, any active DSA member would probably agree with you some, if not totally. The difference is that is where the struggle is for us. If that’s not where it is for you, that’s fine. I work with other tendencies all the time. But it is an experiment, and you can’t see the future. If you think myself and my comrades are social chauvinists, you are out of touch. Look up Springs of Revolution, and call them social chauvinists. If the rest of the org was, then SoR wouldn’t have been able to affect it, but they did, their influence and lives experience in decolonizing struggle has changed the org dramatically in a short time.
DSA is becoming a party, we just aren’t there yet. If it fails to become one at the critical time, it will likely trigger a crisis in the org. The party question and party discipline is on the tip of every active member’s tongue. Local party committees are being formed all over the country.
DSA is far from perfect and we would love it if they had some of the same internal structures as more radical communist parties. DemCent is no longer banned (it was always a joke and a trick played by the Harringtonites) so that is changing internal democracy dramatically. Also its not like other american left parties aren’t complete fucking basket cases. PSL has a ton of problems, cpusa tails the democrats too. SAlt is imploding under its own traditions, the Kshama faction that split to form WDM are arguably the more sectarian faction. But you gotta respect the audaciousness, which DSA seriously lacks. Meanwhile, Our numbers are growing and progressives are being radicalized in DSA, educated and organized. All of these groups have problems but that’s just the USamerican left! We are a baby that has been aborted over and over and over.
I’m in DSA to change it. I’m a deep entryist. Maybe that’s wrong but that’s what got me here, in the struggle. It changed me an I try to change it. We need to stop putting abstract things in abstract boxes like some bourgeois, and center human experience, like Marx instructed. Study Theses on Feuerbach, Friere, Fanon.
Like you’re right about certain things, in a very narrow way, but I can tell you aren’t basing your analysis on an unfiltered assessment of material relationships. You aren’t defining things by their relationships, but by their parameters. This is static thinking, we need to be dynamic and practical, always. Any thinking that prevents our acting is counter revolutionary, and therefore bourgeois.
If you want me to listen to you, you are going to have to demonstrate a better understanding of actual conditions. Or better yet, share your own experiences so we can come together and take something new back into our own organizing.
You have a very sober and realistic take on what DSA actually is and are clearly speaking from the same experience with it I have. Yes there are liberals and social fascists in DSA. They will not be a part of any future socialist party unless they grow ideologically into the actual left. Anybody who has spent any time getting to know actual active DSA members knows a significant fraction, if not outright majority of active membership are not just liberals. In the meantime, I’m glad the dues of the liberals are funding the org as a place for actual marxists, as much as many disagree in tactics, to staff most important committees and caucuses. The party question is growing larger every day, and we even are beginning to see once local Marxist caucuses pivot towards a nationwide position.
I don’t think we believe DSA will be the socialist party of the American future, but at this point it is very obvious incubator that is most likely to have some sort of actual prominent socialist party apparatus grow out of it.
Its been very nice participating in this discussion with you! I agree, we are very much on the same page.
I witnessed a factional dispute over (among many other things) whether DSA would eventually split into its reformist and revolutionary tendencies, and it was so messy I honestly just try to put it out of my mind. The side that argued that a split was inevitable (while still not explicitly calling for that split) was very prefigurative and categorically objective (you can see this is my nemesis.) Having been a delegate in 2023 and 2025 showed me that the org is changing for the better. Its changed me, it is changing others, it is a very interesting time, decades are happening. I’ll burn that bridge when it comes, and I know what side I’ll be on.
I’m a little worried about the next phase of probably illegalist organizing, but also we are in a position to allow ourselves to be honed by those conditions and not destroyed by them. The fact that no one seems to understand what we actually are, neither opponents on the right or left, seems like a dynamic advantage of our movement. And the way democratic socialism is appearing in other parts of the world shows to me that it is part of the international movement. We have a long way to go, as others have mentioned we are to white and middle class, and while i think that is also changing its still a while until we reach the tipping point. The line between the soc dems and the dem socs is becoming brighter and more assertive, and the left is ascendent everywhere. I don’t yet know how to translate that into hope for people who aren’t involved.
But I was doing some list work a couple days after CK got shot, and I was talking to a trans woman labor organizer, DSA member from the Midwest. She had organizer her planned parenthood where she worked, was a delegate and cochair of her chapter’s labor working group. When I asked her about the increased violent rhetoric from the right, she was basically completely unphased. “There’s already a huge target on my back, for me, nothing has changed.” Meanwhile all my software developer progressive friends are like “oh god what do we do its illegal to not be a fascist now.” I love my friends, and would love it if they joined us, but that woman inspired me so much. Without her and those like her (like all the badass trans comrades in my caucus R&R, Sarah Milner on NPC!) all I would have is old books and strong opinions. Alongside them, we have a job to do.
Honored to be in this struggle with you comrade