• hector@lemmy.today
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      21 hours ago

      Western style governments refer to having elections, a free press, being allowed to criticize the powerful. That is not my terminology by the way, that is hundreds of years of terminology.

      • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        13 hours ago

        That is not my terminology by the way, that is hundreds of years of terminology.

        The minimum number of years this could be is 200. At that time, 1825, most of Europe was run by monarchies still, with just a couple of hemi-demi-semi-democratic republics and hybrid governments (like England, excluding its colonies, which it ruled over despotically). +1 more for America as another fractionally democratic state. idk, I think if you’re calling those governments totally superior to “Eastern Governments,” you might just be, uh, uncritically parroting racists.

      • spacecadet [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        21 hours ago

        This is again similar to what the system claims vs. what the system produces/actually functions. We do have elections, but we also have like 66% voter turnout and we also have studies indicating massively popular policies never get passed (e.g. universal healthcare, tax billionaires, etc). Free press is debatable. All US mainstream news outlets are owned by the billionaire class, hardly any of them speak pro Palestine positions. Manufacturing Consent does a good job explaining how the US supposedly free press functions to ultimately peddle state department talking points and status quoisms.

        • hector@lemmy.today
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          21 hours ago

          Obviously the system has never been perfect and further corrupted from me Glory Days of the post war era however lacking they were,

          But we kept elections and freedom of expressio, something eastern governments rarely had going back 2500 years.

          And what you say is my fucking point to begin with. They are taking away our governmental structure, and replacing it with an Eastern style one, which is to say an autocracy with no freedom of expression, no freedom of the press, and us at the complete mercy of the Criminal Justice System.

          However bad it is now, you better believe it’s going to get a whole lot worse. Unless you guys get your head out of the establishment Democrats’ ass and help get some electable, populist, and aggressive candidates that know how to build and run a political machine.

          • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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            17 hours ago

            “But we kept elections and freedom of expression, something eastern governments rarely had going back 2500 years.”*

            The “west” has a history of colonialism and vast destruction of the global south through conquest and death that continues in the spirit of economic domination of third world nations via resource extraction and debt-traps through the IMF. At no point does our “Rich History” matters when all we’ve used it for is to oppress entire nations, classes of people and races of people.

            “which is to say an autocracy with no freedom of expression, no freedom of the press, and us at the complete mercy of the Criminal Justice System.”

            wowza almost like suspected anarchists and communists in the 1920s-1980s under the U.S government!

            • hector@lemmy.today
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              9 hours ago

              First of all, Russia has never been considered a western style government they have always had in eastern style government.

              Second of all, you are denying there is a difference between countries that elect their leaders, and countries with an all-powerful ruler.

              Don’t let your PC auxiliary Brigade cohorts here think you are on to something, it is really too stupid for me to argue against here truly. As such I did not read whatever dribble you wrote.

              • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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                5 hours ago

                It’s obvious you didn’t read what I wrote.

                First of all, Russia has never been considered a western style government they have always had in eastern style government.

                Because I didn’t say anything against that.

                Second of all, you are denying there is a difference between countries that elect their leaders, and countries with an all-powerful ruler.

                I’m not, because you have ignored all evidence that the Soviet Union and China actually have democratic conventions. There is other parties than the CPC, eight smaller ones actually. Provincial elections are held to determine the best candidates based on their skill and ability to serve the people, rather than what color and policies they back. Someone linked you a direct video of this, do you want more information on it, or are you content to believe that the East has no democratic conventions whatsoever?

                Yup. Funny enough, citizens in the Soviet Union had a better diet and caloric intake at the peak under Stalin than the United States. The Soviet Union and China also have a higher home ownership rate as well as a lower homelessness and poverty level.

                https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/cia-rdp85m00363r000601440024-5.pdf

                Read 'em and weep, tiger. That’s the “pointer”, one of many. From your very own intelligence agency that serves the West admonishing and giving credence to the power of the “Eastern Soviet System”. Funny how that works.

                Don’t let your PC auxiliary Brigade cohorts here think you are on to something, it is really too stupid for me to argue against here truly.

                All this rambling and gargling about “PC, WOKE cohorts”. I don’t need any of their approval in what I say, think or read, by the way. I found this website and came into it independently and of my own volition, through reading theory and doctrine of my own will. All your garbage about “PC brigade” falls apart when you realize most of us here are dedicated, well-read communists who have already dealt with many a “stupid” person like you and came into our political beliefs after many years of growth and political analysis.

                I’m not disparaging my comrades, because your garbage is meaningless. I should just clarify that you’re an idiot for even generalizing us all onto the “woke democrat bandwagon” despite the majority of us thinking that most of the U.S govt should be tried for crimes against humanity. Both sides of the aisles sentenced, please.

                One day, perhaps, you’ll learn too.

                • hector@lemmy.today
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                  8 hours ago

                  Do you think you have a pointer? Russia has always been an Eastern style government, even when they had the facade of elections. If you actually read any of my responses you would already know that. Just stroking off that outrage boner aren’t you?

                  • -6-6-6-@lemmygrad.ml
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                    5 hours ago

                    facade of elections

                    On what evidence? We are literally giving you direct evidence from the C.I.A that the Soviet Union had plenty of democratic conventions. What is going against the fucking hostile, enemy intelligence agency that is the direct polar opposite to the Soviet Union and monitoring it’s every actions in your evidence?

                    Your turn. Prove the Soviet Union had a “Facade of Elections”

                  • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    7 hours ago

                    Even when they were doing the Good Guy thing, they were actually Bad Guys the whole time, silly. For…some reason

                    If you had a stroke, nobody would notice the difference

                  • SwitchyandWitchy [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                    7 hours ago

                    even when they had the facade of elections.

                    Elections being a facade has been the hallmark of the governments you call western style but as I’ve just read you don’t really care about that.

          • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            17 hours ago

            In case you don’t know all the people accusing you of Nazi level racism and insinuating you should be executed for the levels of Nazi racism you are experiencing here should at least give you pause and make you reflect on your racist remarks.

            Otherwise I would not really give two shits if someone splattered your brains over a brick wall.

            • hector@lemmy.today
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              9 hours ago

              Wow buddy you are getting pretty emotional. Yes that’s a good point, making a distinction between western style republics and Eastern Style autocracies is… a distinction written in books and Publications for hundreds of years, including our modern era, that nobody has taken issue with until your PC auxiliary Brigade got in on the action here. You are why cynical politicians accuse people of being woke and the voters embrace it. Everybody has been unfairly attacked by a PC group. Luckily I am enlightened so will not affect my political behavior, maybe your time would be better spent helping prevent us from becoming an autocracy instead of denying a difference between what we used to have in this country and across the west, and what we are now becoming.

                • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  5 hours ago

                  Lmao I looked at my phone cuz I’m bored in the office and almost fell out of my chair seeing them reply again. Part of me really wants to think it’s one of us doing a bit because it is so on the nose but I fear it is actually sincere.

                • hector@lemmy.today
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                  8 hours ago

                  Haven’t I already explained this,? Are you just not acknowledging it or have you not read that part yet? If you want to continue stroking off your outrage boner here, why do you not answer the fact that western style governments and Eastern style governments have been referred to for hundreds of years including in our modern era, and no one has taken issue with it until you here now.

                  But I suppose it is unforgivably bigoted against autocracies isn’t it? You should get a job in the administration they would love to have you. You would fit right in

          • CutieBootieTootie [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            19 hours ago

            But we kept elections and freedom of expressio, something eastern governments rarely had going back 2500 years.

            Literally talk to one person from “the east” and you’ll realize how absurdly wrong you are

          • cricbuzz [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            19 hours ago

            Unless you guys get your head out of the establishment Democrats’ ass

            holy shit dumbass, you clearly have not spent a single second on this site have you?

            replacing it with an Eastern style one, which is to say an autocracy with no freedom of expression, no freedom of the press, and us at the complete mercy of the Criminal Justice System.

            Famously, countries in the east have no freedom of expression and no freedom of the press, right? PLEASE understand that you have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re honestly telling me that you buy the propaganda that China, a country with 1.4 billion people, has no freedom of expression and no freedom of the press?

            People are calling you a Western Chauvinist because you are spouting shit like this, which JUST SO HAPPENS to also align with the US State Department talking points. Hmm… So maybe you could stop posting and responding for a minute, and have the courage to listen to the comrades here that are telling you you have no clue what the fuck you’re talking about.

          • spacecadet [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            21 hours ago

            I understand your point and frustration but the impasse we are at here I believe is that the avg hexbear user would claim liberal democracy will ALWAYS trend in this direction. The system is what it does. Sure, I think it’s good to elect strong socialist-adjacent progressives in your local areas to improve the life of working class people, but (someone correct me I’m mistaken) the philosophical position here is that the end result of the system is always fascism and capitalist dictatorship. It will always trend to this conclusion.