- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
The device known as shoyu-tai (or soy-sauce snapper in Japanese) was invented in 1954 by Teruo Watanabe, the founder of Osaka-based company Asahi Sogyo, according to a report from Japan’s Radio Kansai.
It was then common for glass and ceramic containers to be used but the advent of cheap industrial plastics allowed the creation of a small polyethylene container in the shape of a fish, officially named the “Lunch Charm”.
The invention quickly spread around Japan and eventually worldwide, and it is estimated that billions have been produced.
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Wonder if you could put soy sauce in wax like those wax bottle candies instead
I’ve got a fridge drawer for these.
Some people just don’t appreciate the irony of killing turtles with fish-shaped plastic, what can you do
Scrolling by I literally thought “Man, that candy looks delicious, what’s this article about?” And then read the headline… 🫠
A Spanish company (I imagine there are a few worldwide) develops compostable bioplastic containers using PLA, polylactic acid, the most used plastic in 3D printing, in food safe formulations. I suppose there are limitations on what it can contain, and I don’t know if soy sauce is compatible. I know that it’s used for single serving olive oil, for example. There are challenges, like storage life, but it’s a good start.
I do a lot of 3D printing. Printing PLA things for food storage is not recommended, not because of PLA, but because filaments often have modifiers to enhance certain properties that may not be food safe, and because contact with materials and parts, like extrusion nozzles may add impurities that are probably not food safe…
PLA is pretty brittle AFAIK. these need to be squeezed, so i’m not sure it’d do… perhaps they could add something to it? but whether that additive would also be compostable… it’d certainly make it non-recyclable
Keep in mind that PLA also leaks microplastics into food and could also be considered a risk to health just like other plastics.
Aren’t these biodegradable, though? I imagine the body would eventually process them, unlike hydrocarbon based plastics.
“Biodegradable” doesn’t mean “biodegradable in the conditions in the human body.” Lots of ‘green’ plastics are only compostable at a fairly high temperature (120F/50C) and with specific bacteria present.
PLA is not one of those. It’s used in biodegradable implants. Even fairly large bone screws will dissolve within a couple years.
Biodegradable ( “green” ) needs a new definition
I’ve started to see home compostable on some packages.
The hard part about PLA is that while it is biodegradable, it’s only in certain conditions/facilities who are set up for it, and it’s not very common around the country. I’m all for what the company is doing, and I already do see a lot of PLA products in fast food (like soda cups), but it doesn’t mean much if we don’t have the facilities to properly dispose of it.
Source: I do a modest amount of 3D printing
I’m definitely not a polymer expert, I also have my information from what I read as a hobbyist. My take is that while PLA will compost in commercial facilities, it will eventually biodegrade in a reasonable time frame, with minor impact to nature. Better than the alternatives, I guess.
How does it biodegrade though?
Just like disintegrate into tiny plastic molecules that we can no longer see but it’s still plastic? Or does it degrade as far as becoming the individual components that made up the plastic and can be recycled and used by things in nature?
Pla is poly lactic acid, so it breaks down into lactic acid and then further into water and CO2 with heat and bacteria exposure.
Unfortunately while PLA is technically biodegradable, it requires very specific conditions that can only be achieved in dedicated facilities. So it’s not like you can throw it in the composting bin and be done with it. It will also survive for a long time in nature.
Sure, but PLA will eventually biodegrade, unlike things like polypropilene or polyethylene, which are incredibly useful precisely because of their imperviousness.
Al Gore is going to have a field day with this.
Those are cute and I can see how they would be popular. And I see why they should also be banned. I live in the Midwest and I’m not sure I have seen these. Ours just comes in a little sauce packet.
yeah, i’m thinking about our taco bell sauce packets. would they put them in little soy sauce bottles at every table? little cholula bottles with the cute wooden stoppers? what would they do if they couldn’t
bribelobby their way out of this?Essentially a less cute plastic wrapper, no?
Kind of but it’s still a fraction of the waste created. Not perfect but I’d say the polyethylene ones take up 5 to 10 times more space in a landfill or ocean.
Yeah but as another person from the American Midwest, the article seems to indicate south Australia is moving to the packets we have as they’re larger and use less plastic, though the goal is for bulk soy sauce in refillable containers
In Australia we have these or the packets, for take away. You don’t use them for dine in, we have larger refillable glass/plastic containers for that.
I have never once seen one of these. Interesting.
I have an idea, just stop putting them in the ocean.
some jerk: i havE aN idEa, NO
oh fuck, i wasnt supposed to save all my plastic containers until my next day at the beach???
I love productive comments.
Oh no! How are people supposed to sneak G into parties now?
Contact lens case is how they did it around here.
Based
What is the issue with this form compared to others?
South Australia will be the first place in the world to ban them under a wider ban on single-use plastics that comes into force on 1 September.
They aren’t banning the packets tho… I can see how the plastic pouches could be better for the environment than the polypropylene fish tho, but certainly not by much.
Man, it sounds like the ultimate first-world problem, but how are they gonna get soy sauce with takeout sushi without single-use plastics? I imagine the people who get takeout sushi and the people who have a bottle of soy sauce in their fridge are largely different groups. Not to mention the people who get takeout sushi for lunch at work. This may degrade the takeout sushi experience for all of South Australia.
If my wife wasn’t soy intolerant I’d have a bottle of soy sauce in my fridge (her issues with soy mean I really only get east Asian food when going out) and if she liked fish I’d get takeout sushi sometimes. Though honestly if she liked fish and could eat soy sauce I’d’ve learned to make sushi by now, so maybe I’m not the default here
I imagine the people who get takeout sushi and the people who have a bottle of soy sauce in their fridge are largely different groups.
Tbh there’s your answer, fix that. Buy some damn soy sauce, they sell it at the most basic stores.
But that doesn’t solve the issue for people eating it at a third location, like work, their car, or an unprepared friend’s house, can’t buy bottles of soy for literally everywhere you go “just in case” and such.
Maybe we still need them for that, but we can also be mindful of our circumstances and prepare/choose appropriately. Would require people to change personally however, so keep waiting lol.
Hell maybe we just make it common for them to sell little 4oz resealable glass bottles of kikkoman at the Chinese spot, then one can still be unprepared and still get the sauce there (though it’d be cheaper if they prepare next time), and whatever sauce isn’t used is retainable. Still not perfect since those bottles have plastic tops, but it’s something! Maybe make the caps out of hemp plastic for added bonus?
We can make tiny glass bottles if the market demands it.
These companies use plastic because of its weight and ease of manufacturing and I assume it’s also cheaper than glass. The weight may seem a weird metric but when they are shipping billion of them every year it adds up.
If they were forced to change to glass they would definitely increase the price to compensate.
I would love to save the world from ecological collapse, but not if I have to pay for it in any way shape of form whatsoever!
Glass is only better when it is reused something like 5 times. Otherwise it is worse, as the energy needed to make it is just so high plus all the shipping.
True, but at least glass breaks down into sand, and metal caps don’t pollute, they are just unsightly. The plastic cap liners can be made of bioplastics. The energy aspect could be mitigated by mandating 100% renewables in production and transportation, maybe? I know it’s not easy to transition to these, but we don’t have many options.
As I mentioned in a prior comment, there are companies making bioplastic containers, in commercial production now.
Glass is made essentially exclusively with natural gas as the fuel source and there is no easy way to transition to something else to directly use electricity at these scales, conditions and temperatures. Before transitioning such high hanging fruit, we first need to stop burning it to heat homes, which is really easy to replace with electricity.
Well, they claim capitalism is the best driver there is for invention, so this should be sorted before Wednesday!
Single use foil pouches.
Banning the soy sauce packets would force a mindset change. A new solution would be restaurants having the full size bottles and when you pick up, you can bring a Tupperware to fill.
The issue is that you didn’t read the article 😊
I barely even read this comment
I need the tldr of this entire thread
TLDR: Stuff happens. People reacted and then went to bed.
A decent question. Especially if this ban allows the ripper pouch style single serve sauces.
I have collected a tonne of the fish shaped bad boys at river clean ups, so maybe they’re somehow worse. Tbh takeaway sushi could improve in a lot of ways to reduce single use plastics, so kinda funny that the cute fish copped it.If it hasn’t already been broken down into microplastics yet and it’s floating around in its whole form, then other organisms that eat fish that size could think it is a fish and then eat it,” Wootton said.
And:
“Since they are quite a thick plastic, it does take quite a while for them to degrade.”
I’ve been in Japan for 15 years but Idon’t think I’ve seen these here in a long while. Maybe it’s a regional thing?
It’s sold in every sushi box in France. I guess it’s a way to pretend it’s a Japanese thing.
