"There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people. "- Admiral Adama
If you are in USA, is a good time to downloading an “Black bloc manual” in some offline storage
Link?
I just want to take a moment to say the “Biden was no better than Trump” crowd can go fuck themselves.
How about “America has always been a shit show, and Trump is the parody version”?
trump isn’t the parody version… he is the logical, and inevitable end point. he is the perfect avatar and representation of what america is, what it stands for, and what it has ALWAYS stood for! trump is the perfect president because he so perfectly encapsulates every single american value: he is lazy, fat, stupid, corrupt, proudly ignorant and scared of anything he doesnt understand.
how do you look at 250 years of american history and not see that he represents exactly what made america ‘great’? genocide, slavery, segregation and jim crow laws…
These things are always so annoying and uncritical. They are not wrong that the democrats are a conservative party, but that is still where the current progressive movement lives.
I think there is a bit of a trap in seeing the maga rise as a monolith, but I think there are two main wings. The evangelical side and the libertarian side. They might have some overlap, but their motivations and goals are still rather distinct. The important take away for this short essay of sorts is that they have agreed on enough points to move the overton window to get large parts of what they want. For the evangelicals it is abortion bans and ten commandments in schools. In the libertarian wing it is DOGE (inspired by the libertarian president in argentina)
Tankies and others who say “Biden was no better than Trump” are really messing up our ability to have a leftist/progressive party. In either growing it with-in the dems or starting from scratch. I want to understand what they are saying, but it is frustrating how unserious they are in actually achieving goals.
No no, you see, voting for Biden would be voting for this too, somehow. Because they are part of the same system, or something? Both sides same and all that.
Honestly the mental gymnastics are too much for me to effectively work out into a distilled comment.
the people downvoting you are morons and i’m not sure why they’re even here.
Nobody claimed that
Literally millions of people claimed that
Only republican cultists
They were so hard to tell from genuine but deluded leftists.
Lol
'cept the entire tankieverse saying that you shouldn’t vote for Biden (later Harris) because they’re the ones causing the genocide in Gaza. Like yes, they did jack all to fix it, but we all knew Trump would be even worse. Telling that to just about any tankie resulted in “How can it get any worse than genocide? Voting for Biden/Harris means you voted for genocide” or something along those lines.
Didn’t take very long for Trump to go “lol Gaza is prime beachfront property tho, let’s get em fuckers out” after he got his throne back.
They actively courted the likes of Dick Cheney. They are perfectly fine with what’s happening right now
Oh yeah it was definitely fucked up. But at least we didn’t end up with Harris, so the world is saved.
No, the world remains fucked up in either case.
Two different topics. Giving billions of dollars and unlimited diplomatic backup vs giving billions of dollar and unlimited diplomatic backup. There is nothibg different when it comes to gaza. But i never saw people here saying trump would be better for american
It’s less that anyone said he’d be better for Americans and more that everyone said don’t vote for Harris, while Trump received no criticism. Getting dem voters to stay home is an old old republican strategy and the tankies definitely helped.
We are not Dem voters
Oh sorry, republican voter and/or republican helper.
Y’all take us for granted but give us nothing 🤷🏻♀️
Are you blind and deaf?
No
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Your mother surely didn’t taught you how to be civilized
Removed by mod
I’m reporting your uncivilized comment. Learn respect
What are you accomplishing right now?
They accomplished saying the people that helped get us here with idiotic false rhetoric can go fuck themselves. I’ll add preferably with something sharp.
Oh no worries. Trump is such a fan of insurrections he hands out pardons by the thousands for them - every single pardon personally signed by him, and totally not by autopen, I’m sure.
Seriously, though. Can’t wait for him to cry victim and pull a surprised pikachu when all this pushback to his antagonization makes it to the steps of the White House. Hope he keeps the surprised face until the bitter end, and that end can’t come soon enough.
I’m not actually surprised that the second american civil war starts in California. Cali always seemed like the most progressive state.
Progressive as in Pride-themed anti-homeless boulder
Reminds me of Victoria BC in Canada, whole place feels like a liberal nightmare. The place is run and populated by champagne liberals who step over homeless addicts on their way to their micro breweries so they can congratulate each other on how progressive they are.
This is nothing really. If people wanted war they would have strategy. It’s just pissed off people, not people with a plan.
Watching the riot over the past few hours it looks like it’s just bored people with mob mentality.
What do you think the people’s response should be to being black-bagged off the streets by people who don’t have badges, don’t wear uniforms, drive in unmarked vehicles and wear masks?
This hasn’t even begun to get nasty, yet.
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how are they supposed to make a strategy? I mean I’m with you 100%, but normal people aren’t going to be able to create a war strategy without some sort of funding and support.
I mean, strategy forms as you test the waters and see what response you get. The infancies of rebellions often aren’t the most strategic.
This is arguably the most dangerous kind of war, at least for the elites and authoritarians. Angry people without a plan are unpredictable.
California is only “progressive” to the extent that it makes neo-liberals richer.
Massachusetts is the real center of progressivism in the US.
The entire east coast is more progressive because they value modesty and hard work way more than lazy, privileged Californians.
Ah yes, those lazy Californian fake progressives, so fake and lazy to fight in the streets. Unlike those ultra poor in Massachusetts doing nothing to show how progressive they are.
“more than lazy, privileged Californians”? wtf are you talking about.
Ah dude, shut the fuck up.
I love Massachusetts too, but you’re very wrong about Californians.
East Coast Beast Coast baby. Bad things happen in Philly don’t come around
Throw batteries at ICE
Send Gritty in against them
You guys do love hammerin’ shit. Never change, Philly.
Funny how he doesn’t hesitate here, but when Congress was literally in danger of being fucking lynched on Jan 6, he didn’t do shit.
Only because Republicans despise California and Californians with all of their being.
You don’t call for a flag on the play when it’s your team causing the penalty
He was in charge of the lynching
These people are protesting against extrajudicial deportation, deporting children, harassing legal immigrants, the Nazi government, etc.
It’s not a fucking immigration protest. They didn’t deploy the military for immigration protests. People spoke out against Nazis and the military was called in.
Yeah, it’s no longer an “immigration protest”. It’s a NAZI protest.
I’m afraid he’ll declare martial law. What happens if he does?
We all know what it takes to remove fascists from power
There would probably be no consequences for him, but the “martial law” would probably be ignored and not happen.
As I understand it, in the US, martial law can only legally happen if the courts are unable to function. Basically, if things are so bad courts are unable to judge people, you let the military judge them.
The law hasn’t mattered so far. It is illegal for him to deploy the National Guard without the governor’s consent, which was not given. Not only was it now given, but Trump went out of his way to denounce the governor while illegally deploying the National Guard.
The US is no longer operating within the constitution, it is operating under the appearance of one, an appearance that falls apart the closer you look at it.
What you say and what I say don’t contradict. ICE is already acting as if martial law was declared, ignoring due process/habeas corpus. If Trump declared martial law, those that still follow laws, constitution and the courts would keep doing so and those that follow Trumps orders above all would also keep doing so. There would be no substantial change.
Hence Trump’s verbal war on the judicial branch of our government.
Zero consequences, as usual.
“The Trump Administration has a zero tolerance policy for criminal behavior …”
Dude that’s your entire administration. Have some self-awareness, you orange, sagging, coffin dodging oxygen thief.
Who, Trump the thirty-two times felon?
Never met the guy. We’re talking the 34 felony convicted man.
Oh, right, 34 felonies. So far.
34 convicted felonies so far
Don’t forget rapist. Probably liked them young, like his buddy Epstein.
allegedly he asked epstein for a 13 year old that looked like his daughter.
And heres a lives of the rich and famous type show where ivanka shows us her childhood bedroom. Watch her face after she shows her bed, right near the end. She looks like she’s about to fall apart.
Based on his comments and Katie Johnson’s testimony, I don’t believe he ever had sex with Ivanka, though he very obviously wanted to. I can imagine based on her reaction in that video that he assaulted her in some way, though, like groping.
“Aides said [Donald Trump] talked about Ivanka Trump’s breasts, her backside, and what it might be like to have sex with her, remarks that once led John Kelly to remind the president that Ivanka was his daughter,” Taylor wrote, recalling an alleged exchange with Kelly, who served as Trump’s chief of staff between 2017 and 2019.
“Afterward, Kelly retold that story to me in visible disgust. Trump, he said, was ‘a very, very evil man.’” source
Trump assaulted Jill Harth repeatedly in the early 1990s. On one occasion he pulled her into Ivanka’s empty room in Mar-a-Lago to try to have sex with her on Ivanka’s bed. source
Ugh. He’s such a monster.
Considering that he and Epstein used to fly on Trump Airlines flights with a bunch of the contestants for Trump Beauty Pagents that Trump said he liked to surprise “by opening the door while they were in the changing room,” one doesn’t have to guess too hard on that one.
Have some self-awareness
The hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug. Don’t waste your time.
It’s not just the red administration, all the government is rigged and most politicians are criminals.
You’re both sidesing sending the national guard to a left wing protest?!
If you don’t own a gun, its time to get one, regardless of your stance on them. This is martial law without having to call it that.
Gavin Newson specifically said that he did not ask for or need the 2,000 troops and that sending to LA would only make things worse.
Sooo, there’s that.
Legally I believe the National Guard must be mobilized for a legal reason and until Trump has identified an actual cause, he cannot mobilize them himself. So Newson should just order them to stand down.
Newson hasn’t done that though.
“oh, Trump wouldn’t do that, it’s illegal”
Phew, what a relief!
Also, when Trump does illegal stuff, people tend to allow it and obey him. If they try to shut him down using the legal system, he goes ahead and does it anyway.
I kind of just roll my eyes when someone says, “Aha, it’s illegal! He can’t do that!” We don’t really live in that world anymore.
My emphasis was more on Newsom not ordering them to stand down. They’re under his command until a legal order from the POTUS supercedes his command.
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry. This is terrible advice.
What we should be doing is encouraging insubordination by service members. Why the fuck would you agree to use military force against your fellow Americans, on American soil? Not only is that unconstitutional, it’s simply not what you signed up for. Say no
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry
Says someone from the nation that mainly loses military conflicts with the citizenry…
Where do you think I’m from?
Based on your statement referencing the constitution I would say the states, but if I am mistaken then I apologize.
Oh nah, I’m from the south. We’re all descendents of the British colonies at the end of the day though.
Rereading your comment, I can appreciate the irony. I guess I’m trying to talk my American friends out of aspiring toward the next civil war. I don’t think they realize just how good they have it despite the police crack downs. It’s what gives me some small hope if actually ordered to fire on civilians… They wouldn’t.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most of South America would disagree with you.
Anyway. GovCo can’t win anyway. Not even in open hot war. They don’t have the numbers.
Military and Natl Guard combined are less than 3,000,000 people. And that includes the logistics that makes it all work. They couldn’t handle Afghanistan and its <50,000,000 people.
You overestimate how willing people are to throw their bodies at the problem. Things have to be so bad that they expect to die anyway. Otherwise, your militia sign-ups will be limited to only those most brave, ideological, or stupid.
You also underestimate how much more effective military training and ordinances are among the US military vs militias. If they really wanted to mow down civilians, it would be fish in a barrel, even if everyone in the militia is armed.
This is why the hope is that US service men are committed to the constitution and not to Drumpf’s orders. It’s a thin hope.
They’re committed to the paycheck. Don’t be naive. Do you think American soldiers are uniquely unable to carry out atrocities? That sweet salty buttery baby jesus is gonna reach down, touch their hearts and make them defy orders? I’ll refer you to uh, the last 25 years of action in the middle east.
This empire is dying live on TV. And all of them so far have ended bloody. We won’t be the exception.
I did say it was a thin hope (well I said ‘thing’ but I’ve corrected it now).
But I think you give your service men too little credit. Even the police. How many fatalities or even serious injuries have actually occurred during protest activities? These a generally not people who want to kill anyone, particularly not their American brothers and sisters. But when one side dehumanizes the other, all bets are off. If things actually become life threatening, then everything changes. Kill or be killed.
I’m happy to be surprised. But I have set my expectations appropriately low.
I expect some inciting event over the summer. Someone gets killed by the feds and those protests really do turn into real riots. Then the clown prince will escalate. Open war by Christmas.
Like I said. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Maybe we’ll luck out and he’ll have a stroke mid ramble or maybe some general will shoot the bastard during his military parade. But I don’t think we’re that lucky.
Another possible is a general strike. That Union leader they black bagged earlier this week. He hasn’t been released yet. If they try to deport him on some trumped up bullshit that’s gonna have an apocalyptic backlash from basically every union except the police union.
Most states have a token State Guard that answers only to their governor, not the federal government. If Trump keeps this shit up, states are going to start disbanding their National Guard units, and shifting them into State control.
Except Trunp federalized the California National Guard, bypassing Newsome, that’s a pretty big problem. Newsome is suing Trunp. In the meantime - violence on citizens by cops and Trunp-allied forces continues.
Except Trunp federalized the California state force
No, he did not. He federalized the California National guard. The State Guard is a lesser-known organization that answers solely to the Governor. They cannot be federalized. Which is why we’re probably going to be seeing states putting more of their resources into their State Guards and less into their National Guard units.
As for the CA National Guard: Article I, Section 8, Clause 16. The State retains the sole authority to appoint the officers of the Militia.
10 USC 246. The National Guard is the Militia.
Newsom has the authority to appoint the officers of the National Guard. Revoking the appointments of the Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers of the California National Guard, he effectively disbands the organization.
Trump has no authority to override Newsom’s authority here.
Edited to correct.
yeah. not with that attitude.
Repeat after me: A government that is bluntly sending weapon to bomb kids have no concern of it is own citizen.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.
It has begun. Trump unleashing the army against the population fighting against his gestapo.
I am very fearful that many protesters will be murdered in the coming days.
And things will deteriorate quickly
I expect them to switch to live ammo within the month
I think days, weeks if we’re lucky
I hope it is weeks. I am not ready for conflict, I only had two lessons regarding firearms. I will need at least a month to sometimes hit targets at 25 meters, and to find other likeminded people.
Boston Massacre 2.0?
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a post on X that the Defense Department is “mobilizing the National Guard IMMEDIATELY to support federal law enforcement in Los Angeles. And, if violence continues, active duty Marines at Camp Pendleton will also be mobilized — they are on high alert.” ~ABC News
They are already threatening to send in Marines…
They’ve been jerking themselves off to deploying the military against California for decades. This is their fantasy come true and they can hardly wait.
Makes me think of this song.
Der da dum der da dum
Does that source explain how they’ll circumvent Posse Comitatus?
Nope, but using active military is no different than federalized National Guard. Both are title 10 troops and the use of either is the same under under Posse Comitatus. This is already Martial Law.
You say that like Trump cares about the law or will listen to the supreme Court in the unlikely event that they agree to hear this case before he’s dead or that they rule against him. The evil rapist has been ignoring the law a long long time.
In a different article it says that he would use the Insurrection Act of 1807 so somebody cares about the law of the appearance. They’ve already listened to rulings from the courts, albeit slowly and impartially.
There’s a huge difference between obedience and respect for the law and cherry picking laws, taking them out of context and quoting them to the media. Trump does the latter, and threatens courts of law that do the former.
Whatever side of this issue you fall on, you should at least know that, tactics-wise, joining with the LAPD to do raids in Eastside LA is not going to work how you think it will. There’s movies, albums, books, historic moments in living memory, etc. that warn about that. Start in Sacramento or wherever. Don’t expect East LA to care about your “authority.”
The powerful and their goons seem to have forgotten that sure they can roll up anywhere with an army and overpower protesters, but that’s not going to solve this. It’s just going to start a true resistance.
There have been few times in history where resistance forces have fought state forces on an open battlefield.
As seen historically, a typical resistance force will harrass the enemy. Bomb their buildings, stockpiles, and infrastructure. Wait until the state goons are alone, at their homes, at the bar, in a grocery store and then that’s when they kill them.
All sending the national gaurd in to kill protesters will result in is a true resitance forming.
The powerful have forgotten what it was like to be afraid to leave their fortresses
I hope a true resistance is born of this. We need to band together and rise up!
Agreed. If protestor blood is spilled, it will foment a resistance that will build.
I hope I’m not giving too much credit for a strategy, npbut it might just be an attempt to provoke a reaction. Either California backs down or they resist and there’s an excuse to take over. Look for a bunch of masked thugs to try to arrest Newsom for “treason”
One word - drones.
Only useful if you know when and where someone will be. Obviously heightens surveillance capabilities, but they can’t be everywhere at once
I’m pretty sure they were throwing drones in on the side of the people, not the government.
You should look at the fields in Ukraine strewn with the fiber optic cables of 100’s of kamikaze drones.
I mean yeah the US military always has the option to raze entire cities to sniff out a resistance. I doubt that will be done
I don’t think the threat is coming from the military in this case, it’s coming from MAGA.
Plus regular people can get hold of drones too.
I don’t know history well…do tell or link some reads?
This has been going on so long that there’s an 80’s Cheech and Chong parody song about it.
The 1992 riots started in South Central, which is historically African American. East L.A. is sort of the hub of Hispanic “immigrants.” (immigrants in quotes there because America swiped that land after the Mexican-American war; lots of Hispanic Americans didn’t cross the border but had the border cross them).
I don’t live there. I’m just an enthusiastic idiot. I love Los Angeles. So, I can’t do its history justice. Hopefully, someone else can. I have friends there and I go there a fair bit but it’s not my hometown so I don’t want to misrepresent L.A. (I live in New Orleans so L.A. and LA—the postal code for Louisiana—get mixed up a lot. So, I use L.A. for the city. No one else does.)
It’s just Cheech on the song …the two had split up by that point and Tommy Chong refused to have any part of it.
My apologies. I wasn’t following their career closely when I was 7.
The Irish resistance is the closest analogue to what that kind of armed resistance would look like.
East LA. The best Pawnshops in America!
2000 Guardsmen. For a city of 3 million. And a governor who doesn’t want them there. Sure. Good luck with that.
The goal is to engineer a ‘state of emergency’ so future elections may be canceled. That’s it. The guard could have all stayed home and the process will simply continue as if they’d come out because each step is purely performative to get to the goal.
Maybe a bit of a hot take, but I think Trump is also doing this at least partly to distract from his spat with Musk’s Epstein implications. Not to mention Trump’s upcoming parade. Also, keep in mind that 2,000 Nat’l guard troops is surprisingly low, especially for an area the size of L.A. In '92 they brought in almost 10,000.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t nervous about this, too, but personally I believe people need to keep their cool, here. I’m seeing a lot of doom spiraling and panicking all over the place online and we need to be mindful of how this affects us mentally and emotionally.
We’re in the long game.
This is basically my take as well, Californian cities are fucking massive and 2,000 people in LA especially is barely a drop in the bucket. Also these are National guardsmen who may very well be pissed they are being sent to stand around outside in LA during the summer, the concrete and blacktop does not let go of heat easily.
Edit: Bucket not bugget, my auto correct is on bath salts.
Also, a number of them will agree with protesters.
And there’s another factor, out of any militarized element in the US the national guard have the potential to be the least threatening. They were affected by the post Vietnam reforms just like the rest of the branches, especially after Kent state. Fact of the matter is the guardsmen are far more likely to take issue with ICE and the police in general, reminder that quite a few came forward after the BLM protests saying they wanted to defend the protestors from the police.
Mind you that doesn’t eliminate risks involved but it does mean that there is far far more potential for this to utterly backfire in Trump’s face.
reminder that quite a few came forward after the BLM protests saying they wanted to defend the protestors from the police.
And did they? No.
They are cowards who do what they’re told. After this is over, they will do the same. Disobeying or having remorse now would just be all too inconvenient… Saying “sorry, I actually didn’t want to be Gestapo, but did it anyways” is not a valid defense.
The foundation of action is started with but a single brick. The National Guard weren’t rolled out till later on into the BLM protests after they had in many ways started to wind down and stabilize. The current Guardsmen are being deployed at the start, after already being fucked over by Trump via VA cuts and other more general bullshit.
Call me general wait and see but it’s too early to make any calls with too many factors, this could turn into a massacre, a revolution, or the Guardsmen could get pissed off and butcher ICE. It’s still too early and chaotic to make calls. Not like I’m any help beyond trying to cool nerves, too volatile to protest and I am reliant on my MAGA grandmother. Pisses me the fuck off that I have to live through this bullshit.
Not like I’m any help beyond trying to cool nerves, too volatile to protest and I am reliant on my MAGA grandmother.
I mean she’s not gonna disown you… right?
I had an elderly parent threaten to throw me out onto the streets. They had fallen while nude, I called the fire department for help, and asked if they could send personnel the same gender as my parent. Ever since being threatened for trying to be considerate, I haven’t trusted that parent ever since.
Sure, it might be dementia or something…but I still can’t help but feel that was my parent’s genuine feelings about me.
Probably not but it’s the difference between going under the radar and being scrutinized. She would likely push me to move to the cabin in Idaho if I did something, which frankly speaking would be a far worse position to be in.
Yeah, that’s why they’re pointing guns at them. They’re really sorry though, so it’s okay.
Fuck you. I was one of those soldiers and I’d like to think that some of the hundreds of raped and murdered university of Baghdad students would like a word with you. The amount of young women’s bodies we dredged out of Z lake…
I get it. They/we whatever, aren’t the good guys as long as they’re taking orders from bad guys, but there are people who would be teetering on the edge, who want to do the right thing. Maybe not enough to cancel itself out, but certainly enough to hinder itself enough to get a jump on things to make things truly equal.
Ok?
The US Military didn’t decide to invade Iraq because they wanted to do good deeds, but that doesn’t mean you didn’t also aid some people along the way. The US Forces invaded over lies and caused mass death and destruction in exchange for political power and money. It wasn’t a war for a good cause, and lead to increased extremism in the Middle East.
Back to the original topic: I generally agree, but am only pessimistic about their numbers and ability to actually resist.
You’re not wrong. I’m not saying it was a justifiable conflict by any means. But many of us were given orders to go to a place in support of something we didn’t agree with. The difference between that and firing on us civilians is huge. From my personal experience, I say you have far more to worry about from police/troopers than any military force.
OK, but put simply, police forces exist to enforce laws, military forces exist to kill enemies. This is why there are laws to prevent military forces from being deployed domestically. Their jobs are very different, and neither is truly qualified to do the job of the other.
The difference between killing and oppressing innocent people in a foreign country and innocent people in America is only “huge” if you don’t see the former group of people as human beings.
Its always important to differentiate between the individual policeman and the institution of the police, when criticising. It is absolutely necessary that people step up for the safety of everyone and protect them (which is what the police is supposed to do/does). The problem is, that since the police has the monopoly to excerpt violence and this monopoly is controlled by the state it is a tool for those in power to preserve their power and demolish resistance.
This is alsobwhy I dont really like slogans like ACAB, since it sets the policeman who probably has very good intentions and does great work on the same level of “ceiticising” something" than the flaws that police sadly has.
The amount of young women’s bodies we dredged out of Z lake…
K. Literally just, k. That doesn’t justify anything and you know that, so why bring it up?
Well the guys that were doing it aren’t exactly doing it anymore. The point was that although the reasons for going there were bullshit, some good was done. I personally delivered dozens of loads of school supplies to schools built by the army. These weren’t replacements for bombed schools, they were new ones in rural areas where schools didn’t exist.
I know. I know. That’s no excuse for any of what happened, obviously. I’m just saying not everyone that raises their arm for the oath is a monster, and many join with good intent. Cops on the other hand…
I think the lack of numbers is intentional. Trump and the Heritage Foundation want a violent response to justify an even more violent reaction. They’re looking to have the national guard be not enough to make it look like immigrants and the left are a threat to be dealt with and showing them hurting National Guard troops would elevate the narrative to a military threat at the civilian level. They want someone to brick a national guardsmen, I’d wager they want a few guardsmen to die, it would give them everything they need, they could declare martial law and stop elections, then they send in the marines.
There are good odds we’ll get an iconic photo out of this, like the Kent State massacre. But I don’t know if we’re so post-truth that anyone would care.
Photo I’m thinking of is on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
No its not to distract from Musk. He is lowballing deployment so if/when it doesnt work and he deploys the actual Army or Marines it will seem “reasonable”. He is 100% looking for a reason to fuck California hard and will get it.
