Isn’t it cuz they aren’t “mentally fit”?
Which still isnt a good excuse to be a bigot, you can be non trans and less mentally fit than a trans person yet allowed in the military. I hate this country sometimes
If you’re “mentally fit” then the military will fix that.
Excellent point
if ex military trans want to kick off the revolution, they will have earned my respect.
Respect shouldn’t have to be earned, it should be the default to respect everyone. It is reasonable for trust or admiration to be earned, but not respect.
There are two distinct kinds of respect: for the human being (respect the human rights) and for the person (respect what that person does).
Agreed. But too often the two are conflated and individuals rights are lost not for what they do, but for what demographic group they are a member of.
Thank you, I agree completly with you.
I respect that ;)
Respect can be revoked though.
If you are talking about respect for actions (see above) then yes. Respect for the human being should be constant.
Just to be clear, would you also say this about hitler or similiar people? Just hypothetically, there could be no reason at all that you say you would revoke it?
Respect shouldn’t have to be earned
speak for yourself.
I shouldn’t have to be earned.
It seems that their imagined enemy is both too strong and too weak… Jeez, where have I heard that before?
The quantum immigrant that is both stealing jobs from Americans while simultaneously nothing more than a drain on welfare?
TBF, Pete Hegseth also doesn’t want cis-women in the military.
Imagine being at war for literally over 90% of your societies existence and you don’t want half your population to have the ability to become combatants.
F tier warrior race
Got to use some populatuon to replenish the ranks.
There’s some –some—reason to not want women in front-line infantry positions. The combat load that infantry has to carry around works out to be over 100#, and it’s a struggle to get cis-men fit and strong enough to carry that, and still ruck 20+ miles at a time without collapsing. Most women are unlikely to be able to achieve that, particularly when they may weigh only 25# more than the load that they have to carry. But, IMO, as long as they can meet fitness standards, let 'em serve in the infantry if that’s what their ASVAB scores allow and it’s the MOS they want.
Give that the new rifle–XM7, I think?–weighs more than the M5, and the ammunition is heavier, that load is gonna get heavier, and people that are more in-tune with the military than I am tend to believe that we need to get the combat load lighter, by a lot.
Honestly, most of it really comes down to Pete Hegseth being sexist.
Proving that it’s all just about hate. We’re strong though, we’ve been through so much, though not many of us made it. But we can keep going and we will win. Never forget. 💙🩷🤍🩷💙
Fascism always has enemies that are simultaneously so weak that they will be easily defeated by fascist superiority … while also being terribly oppressive that it will take a great battle to overthrow the powerful enemies of fascism
Umberto Eco - Ur-Fascism
I’ve heard something similar for conspiracy theories also.
NASA is at the same time an agency with enough advanced technology and resources that they were able to fool the entire world for a several-day-long broadcast of a fake moon landing, while also being too feeble and pathetic to have actually gone to the moon.
Then they snuck all the stuff they said they had on the moon to the moon before the other nations got there to look.
Well put. Also works with the classic trope of lazy but simultaneously job stealing immigrants
If you want to keep the fiction up, you need to keep imagining additional things: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RequiredSecondaryPowers.
That list was way too short
There’s no coming back once I click on that link
“The enemy is massing their military near our border, which is a threat to us! We can defeat their military easily of course, they are disorganised and weak. But their movements are hostile and threatening to us! So we must preemptively attack them! Not because we need the element of surprise, but because we want to demonstrate our superior military tactics! This will be a quick 3-day special military operation. Because they are weak and we are strong but they are an existential threat to us.”
Fascism requires a group of others to persecute. Ideally, that group would be very small (as a percentage of the overall population) and already somewhat marginalized/“different”.
So here we are.Bigots are too weak to participate in society. They should be banned.
That’s a pretty bigoted stance though. Same mindset that’s led to the US prison system re: criminals, which is exactly what banning people from society is in function. I’m more on the structural rehabilitative side when it comes to addressing harmful anti-social behaviour.
Being bigoted is literally a skill issue. People with less money, status, or loved ones are more likely to hold bigoted views. Even in competitive online games higher ranks is less bigots
All three of those dudes are trying to hide their boners.
+1 for allyship
-1 for boner jokes over the age of 12
Yeah, what a wanker.
I agree with the sentiment being discussed here, but the argument being peddled isn’t that they are too strong for sports, it’s that they are too strong for womens sports, like women are so weak and their sports are a joke. The current right wing arseholes in the US are also claiming that women shouldn’t be in the military. This nonsense is layers of bigotry deep.
You aren’t really refuting the conundrum presented by the woman. She is pointing out the same thing you are, but I feel like you’re not getting the point.
Trans women are too strong to be in women’s sports, implying they are stronger than cis women. Yet simultaneously being told they are too weak to be in the army, something that they aren’t even saying of cis women, implying that trans women are weaker than cis women.
The woman in the interview is correctly pointing out the hypocrisy here to highlight that it’s not logical, it’s just bigotry.
I feel like their hypocrisy and transphobia can be pointed out even simpler by:
“No!! You can’t be in women’s sports, because you are a man!!”
and
“No!! You can’t be in the military, because you’re not… a… man…?”It’s like how Imane Khalif is a man because she has a vagina and higher testosterone levels, but I am not a man because I have a vagina and higher testosterone levels.
When you argue with TERFs, it’s very easy to get them to contradict themselves like this. It’s not a consistent ideology - it’s “ewww yucky trans people.” Which is why we have an epidemic of alt right weirdos who are all of a sudden very committed radical feminists (despite having basically no knowledge of radical feminist theory - if you press them, they’ll claim Andrea fucking Dworkin wasn’t a radical feminist because she wasn’t a TERF!)
You can’t expect what they say to make sense. It’s the game of the alt right - they don’t believe anything they say, they just know that people have to respond to their words and not the meaning.
Yeah this sums it up well
I mean I feel like it’s pretty easy to follow what they’re saying. There is a gradient between the 2 points. It’s not an on/off switch, it’s not binary. It’s why fascist logic is bullshit to begin with.
I don’t think anyone is saying women’s sports are a joke or that they are weak. There are undeniable differences in some sports between the top performers that correlate with gender. Hence for fair competition the genders of many sports are kept separate.
If someone is saying trans people are too strong for womens sport but too weak for the military then their opinions on women are pretty clear.
Are they? I don’t know that anything about that statement is very clear at all other than whomever said it is pretty hardcore retarded.
I see you excel at logic and have a great set of morals. Keep at it bud.
*transpeople shouldn’t be in the military.
Most people who require medication aren’t allowed in the military. It makes logistics so much harder. This goes for those with severe allergies, diabetes, or any number of issues. There’s a reason why MREs are super shelf stable, why most small arms use the same 5.56 round, why everything uses diesel, etc, etc. It’s all to make logistics easier and better.
Hormones fall under the same category. What happens when a transman stops taking testosterone? What happens when a transwoman stops taking estrogen? The first thing a good enemy will do is cut off the logistics chain, and that would cripple anyone who needs meds.
Most people who require medication aren’t allowed in the military.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Lol, I’m currently active duty and prescribed four different daily medications for long term issues. None of this is disqualifying or prevents me from deploying. This is a complete non-issue outside of a FOB
Did you get waivers?
Trans people stop taking hormones all of the time. There was recently a recall of testosterone gel due to contamination - there are definitely guys going without at this current moment.
It’s not like you have to keep taking hormones to keep being trans. If you are a trans guy and go off for a while, your periods might come back, which sucks. Over long periods of time, you’d have your fat and muscle redistribute.
It’s not like missing a shot or a pill kills you. I feel like garbage if I’m off, but I still function.
You could maybe make an argument that people on medication shouldn’t be sent behind enemy lines. But you realize that’s a tiny fraction of servicemembers, right? Most servicemembers are stationed within the country, and many more are stationed at bases in allied nations, where supply chain isn’t at risk.
And… if there is a supply chain issue, they’ve got bigger problems, like food?
Most people who require medication aren’t allowed in the military
Source. That’s absolute horseshit. A source is a valid requirement here. It 100% depends on what’s needed.
That is a list of disqualifying conditions. That doesn’t support what you said.
Where is “most”? Where is any metric?
What do a lot of those conditions have in common? Required daily medication.
Testosterone is often a once every other week, or once a week shot. Some people have pellets, which are implanted under the skin and last for months.
And again, it’s not “required.” There are trans people who never even take hormones.
Dude people with disabilities can serve ffs.
He doesn’t care, dude is a straight up fascist.
He loves getting into arguments over minutue because it gives his ideas the legitimacy of being taken seriously.
He really just needs to fuck off back into the sewer with the rest of the scummy losers.
What happens? One thing that DOESN’T happen is that they would be unable to fight. Transmen might slowly lose some musculature, but they’d still perform about the same in combat, certainly for awhile. Transwomen might actually bulk up. And all of them would have an extra level of rage at the enemy to tap into. Your whole point is bogus.
She’s the only one in that group I wouldn’t want to get into fight with.
Dude those three guys will fuck you up. They are well trained in the army, you can say that much for sure.
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No, no, I’m not going to be strict with definitions when they are not. This is what they said. They don’t care about “women’s sports”. they care about transwomen in sports. I will be as specific as they are, they don’t deserve to have their points clarified for them.
“Low Bar” fuck off. Transpeople are being attacked for existing. The bar is in hell. Being a devil’s advocate is just that, advocating for the devil.
are women not allowed to join the military?
They are kicking transwomen out of the military.
im aware. the comment im responding to says that transwomen arent allowed in the military because theyre too weak for the military but too strong for womens sports.
i was asking if cis women are allowed in the military.
Because of their reliance on regular treatment of estrogen / testosterone. You cannot be in the military and need most daily medication already.
they seemed fine with it before now
Transwomen, or men, appear to be strong when they compete against females.
In the military, they’re non deployable if they have to take their hormones. Depending on the regulations, it’s been awhile since I was in. Especially if they’re unable to conform to military life , because the military definitely shouldn’t conform to them, especially if it’s about life and death in the field. …
If people can’t join because they’re mentally unstable, then why should someone with gender dysphoria be able to enlist? Would it be a distraction to the unit? I know for a fact the infantry wouldn’t be a good fit for them, and they shouldn’t force combat arms to accept them, given their responsibilities.
You may say, “fuck their responsibilities”, but those are the civilians who don’t have the intestinal fortitude to enlist, or the soldiers who don’t deploy to combat situations.
I think people underestimate the frontline deployability piece regarding hormones. Prolonged loss of access to hormone therapy is rough on the person, just as losing access to any medication like ADHD medication or asthma medication would be if you’re cut off from supply while fighting in the bushes.
That being said, not everyone in the military needs the same requirement. For example classes are assistive technology that a lot of people in the military use and fighter pilots have more stringent uncorrected vision requirements compared to infantry. Depending on your role, post-enlistment medication requirements do not automatically get you kicked out, though your role may have to change. In an advanced military, there are lots of non-frontline roles to fill, especially now that non-frontline drone warfare is becoming more and more prevalent. Some militaries around the world are starting to accept certain medicated conditions including mild mental health conditions. When you’re understaffed, you can’t afford to turn away otherwise able and willing recruits.
Militaries absolutely have to conform to the people who serve in them. User-centered design started in the military, equipment has to fit and be usable by the humans that operate them–a single standard vest size does not properly fit most people, hence adjustments. Militaries had to conform to humans when they realized humans get PTSD. Militaries had to adapt to mitigate racism as mixed-race units were ultimately the better option–no shit there was pushback on the grounds of distraction and unitncohesion. Tampons were needed when women joined. You trade-off logistical and social complexity for a bigger force and create opportunities to tap into the best of those new populations you include in your military. The US Marines have it right. Improvise, adapt, overcome, then adapt gain.
The question about trans people being mentally unwell is just misinformed. Trans people go on hormone therapy so they aren’t dysphoric. They’re not mentally unstable.
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Your argument works if they do not allow any women into the military, which I believe is not the case.
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I generally haven’t kept up with the military since I got out, but women in “combat arms” MOSs were strictly forbidden, like infantry and artillery. Are you asserting that is no longer the case for the US or other militaries?
… that hasn’t been the case since Obama’s second term.
https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked
https://newsroom.uw.edu/blog/expert-science-wont-resolve-debates-about-trans-athletes
Here are a few sources talking about why that is not really grounded in science, it’s a nuanced issue and depending on the sport and the level of hormone therapy a trans person has gone through because that can determine things that you wouldn’t expect like muscle mass and even bone density/length. On top of that some cis women have naturally more testosterone than average, and we’re seeing some biological women’s eligibility in sports be questioned because of this trans panic. The answer is: it’s just not that simple. Hormones and chromosomes aren’t constant across biological males and females and they aren’t they aren’t a good basis for allowing/preventing certain people to play certain sports.
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