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Joined 10 months ago
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Cake day: December 13th, 2024

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  • Your claims lack links to supporting references. At least I provide them & link to multiple distinct passages that all seem to converge to the same conclusion. As for the translation, we’re not about to learn ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek to refer to the earliest texts. This is where linking to a more faithful translation would come in if you can do that.

    refer to the pagan concept of an afterlife

    Not pagan: the Torah refers to Sheol as either (1) a metaphor for grave or (2) a bleak netherworld where all the dead reside (comparable to Hades). The Tanakh (Daniel 12:2) mentions a general resurrection & afterlife. This made its way into the Old Testament.

    The Pharisaic school, which became Rabbinic Judaism, claimed to keep an explanatory Oral Torah for the written Torah, which they eventually codified as the Talmud. This started with the 2nd Temple period before & concurrent with early Christianity, thus influencing its scriptures. The Talmud refers to an afterlife in terms of Sheol, Olam Ha-Ba, Gehinnom:

    • Olam Ha-Ba: a place of reward for the righteous
    • Gehinnom: a cursed valley identified in the Torah that also refers to a place of 12-month punishment/purification for the impure before they may proceed to Olam Ha-Ba. (The utterly wicked may not proceed.)

    Cultures evolve & acquire ideas from exposure to other cultures. Their traditions & mythological texts are no exception. Judaism & early Christianity likely adopted ideas of duality of good & evil, free will, resurrection, an afterlife, divine justice from contacting cultures.[1]

    in line with Pharisaic Judaism

    The word in question there is “gehenna” which carries a very specific meaning that does not, in any way, infer an afterlife.

    They claimed the contrary: see earlier mention of Gehinnom (the Hebrew name for Gehenna).

    the unrighteous are destroyed

    In all translations, the famous passage in Matthew about sorting the sheep & goats to different sides specifically mentions eternal punishment for those who don’t get eternal life. Moreover, resurrection is a life after death, ie, an afterlife. None of this is consistent with lack of punishment.

    As I wrote before, the Bible is inconsistent, so even the Bible you claim is mistranslated indicates you’re right about the absence of an afterlife & the absence of hell. They both do & don’t exist!

    We’re both right. We’re both wrong. Welcome to inconsistency: you can read absolutely anything into the Bible.


    1. Mediterranean & Near East cultures in regular contact were likely exposed to ideas from

      • Ancient Egypt: the idea of an afterlife with divine judgement traces as far back as 1500 BCE.
      • Persia: the oldest passages of the Zoroastrian Avesta (the Gathas is thought to have existed before 1000 BCE) introduce a cosmic duality between asha (roughly good) & druj (roughly evil), free will, & personal accountability resulting in a duality of rewards in the afterlife: the house of Song or best of existences rewards asha whereas the house of Lie (described as a place of prolonged darkness, foul food, woe) rewards druj.

      The Tanakh refers to ancient Egypt & evidently admires Cyrus the Great (of Persia) by designating him a messiah for the return of Jews to Zion and building of the 2nd Temple. Christianity features the Biblical Magi (the term for Zoroastrian or Persian priests). ↩︎


  • I checked before writing the last comment, and it’s mentioned a few times. Nonbelievers are punished in the afterlife.

    Revelation 21:8

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Only “born-again”/baptized enter heaven

    John 3:3–5
    1. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    2. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    3. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    and believers should not perish, but get everlasting life.

    John 3:14–16
    1. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    2. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    3. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    As for those who do perish, that happens in hell.

    Matthew 10:28

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Nonbelievers are denied entry.

    Matthew 10:33

    But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    This all appears in the New Testament.

    The older, Jewish scriptures don’t mention hell. However, Deuteronomy 13 is all about Moses instructing the Israelites to murder heretics. Moral bankruptcy.




  • The Bible is an inconsistent mess that people can read anything into. Referring to it is an exercise in cherry-picking. It has good Jesus parts, but there’s the whole rest of the morally bankrupt nonsense with evil god shit:

    • vengeful god who
      • commands genocide, demands worship, & creates evil
      • punishes disobedience with curses, plagues, cuckoldry, cannibalism to eat your own children, slavery, infighting
    • endorses genocide, killing innocents, slavery, selling daughters to sex slavery, rape, forced marriage of victim to their rapist, inequality of women
    • weird purity codes against pork & shellfish; mixing fibers, crops, animals; particular facial hairstyles; tattoos; body modification; etc.
    • an afterlife that punishes nonbelievers who do good

    all while claiming to be the final word of god. Arguing for good while referring to the Bible requires willfully overlooking all of that: it isn’t good.