Its like Hillary walking into a working class kitchen for the first time.

They’ve been shielded from even critical support of China and other AES for so long they literally, not figuratively, literally cannot process that people exist that have beliefs that aren’t Reddit Approved. They immediately assume it’s bots or wumao. Human beings can’t possibly hold these beliefs, so they must be Oriental hordes or actual robots.

  • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    China is a capitalist country. I don’t disagree with that. However, if you get your head out of your ass and actually read some theory, you will realize that the form of capitalism that is being practiced in China is actually a left-liberal classical capitalism, fundementally grounded in principles of industrial growth discussed by Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Karl Marx, that, if it overtakes the U.S. as global hegemon, actually has the potential to transition into a socialist society.

    Their poverty reduction, infrastructure building, and general wheeling and dealing with underdeveloped countries is laudable and far outstrips the history and ability of the West, and while I don’t really like their foreign policy stances, particularly on MLM issues, refusing to actually analyze what is going on there and what has the potential to go on there is a sure sign of the typical, unread, left-com martyrdom complex where you have the audacity to criticize the projects of others without ever having done anything particularly productive or revolutionary yourself.

    • CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      actually has the potential to transition into a socialist society

      LMFAO I’ve read plenty of Marx and it clearly does not.

      Their poverty reduction, infrastructure building

      Maybe tinges of social democracy in a fast-growing economy accompanied by mass human rights abuse.

      dealing with underdeveloped countries

      Ah yes because Xi is doing it out of the goodness of his heart, totally not getting anything out of it like imperialist influence in Africa and interest money.

        • CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Ok, they’re nicer than the west, that doesn’t mean it’s not still imperialism. Most of the time they don’t forgive debt and when they do it’s corrupt; they’re trying to win them over to become satellite states one day.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Most of the time they don’t forgive debt and when they do it’s corrupt;

            Almost like some kind of unfalsifiable orthodoxy is being used to make the judgement here

          • GnastyGnuts [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Most of the time they don’t forgive debt and when they do it’s corrupt [emphasis mine]; they’re trying to win them over to become satellite states one day.

            What do you mean when you say their debt forgiveness is “corrupt”? And why do you believe that they want to win them over as “satellite states” and not as regular-old geopolitical allies?

            Ok, they’re nicer than the west, that doesn’t mean it’s not still imperialism

            What about it makes it imperialism to you? Do you see any difference at all between lending money for development projects and imperialism? How does forgiving loans facilitate economic domination of these places?

            From that news.com australian article I posted: “But the concept of a Chinese “debt trap” has also been criticised, with a study in 2020 finding China had restructured or refinanced about $21 billion of debt in Africa between 2000 and 2019. The study also noted there was no evidence of “asset seizures”and that Chinese lenders had not used courts to enforce payments, or applied penalty interest rates to distressed borrowers.” For a go at economic imperialism, they don’t seem keen on putting the choke-hold on.

            • CatholicSocialist@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              It’s more like your billionaire friends gives you a $100k loan to buy a house and expects you to pay them back with interest.

              • GnastyGnuts [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                From that news.com australian article I posted: “But the concept of a Chinese “debt trap” has also been criticised, with a study in 2020 finding China had restructured or refinanced about $21 billion of debt in Africa between 2000 and 2019. The study also noted there was no evidence of “asset seizures”and that Chinese lenders had not used courts to enforce payments, or applied penalty interest rates to distressed borrowers. [emphasis mine]”

                They’ve had the opportunity to really milk these countries if they wanted, and actively chosen not to.

                EDIT: Here’s the study being referenced in that paragraph i quoted: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3745021

      • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Marx was incorrect about alot of socio-political things, in particular his specific model of social revolution. You clearly believe this otherwise you wouldn’t still be a Catholic.

        However his historical model for capitalist industrial development is sound, and eventually the internal contradictions will have to be solved, one way or another. My hope that it isn’t a violent struggle that overthrows the CPC, but it very well may be. It’s either that, aggressive internal reform (which wouldn’t be the first time that occured) or they will take a neo-liberal turn themselves and then I will re-evaluate my position, which will also be reflected in the mass degradation of living standards if they take that route. And who knows, that may happen. But it hasn’t yet.

        ‘Mass human rights abuses’. Ah yes, the country with a 90% approval rating even by Western studies is the one participating in mass human rights abuses. How is Zenz doing these days?

        Who the fuck ever said it was out of the goodness of his heart? It’s for multi-polarity, resource access and ally building. Again, as critical as I am in that regard, it is the diplomatic move to make if you are in China’s global position. They don’t need to shake the boat, because ultimately time is on their side. They are very cynical in that regard.

        Lol ‘imperialist influence in Africa’, where are the military bases? Where is the limited occupations, training camps, invasions and coups? Heaven forbid the Chinese build the things that they are paid to build. No please, keep spouting off IMF talking points.

      • iie [they/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        mass human rights abuses

        your source chain:

        mainstream articles, citing -> the victims of communism fund, citing -> adrien zens, citing -> “an anonymous source told me bro”

        go actually follow up on this shit you read