Look man, you don’t know the military well, so it’s easy to criticize the actions of people whose position you never have to imagine yourself in,
Got it. Let he who has flipped the switch cast the first stone at the brave men and women manning the gas chambers!
but it’s like open-and-shut, you go to jail and fail to change anything if you’re not careful.
Again. What do you think is going to happen to the people protesting and actually fighting against tyranny when ICE et al have had enough? Hell, the government is trying to send fucking Kat Abughazaleh to jail and she is a pretty white presenting politician with a large social media following.
But I get it. It is much easier for people who haven’t served to have a backbone and actually fight against tyranny. Because… they don’t know how good boot leather tastes?
Are you saying the National Guard should fight ICE right now?
Or are you saying the National Guard soldiers should frag their officers?
Or just the soldiers here and there resist how they can and go to jail for refusing to pick up trash? This one leaves you with a National Guard completely not on your side instead of at least half on your side when you might need it most.
Are you saying the National Guard should fight ICE right now?
Hmm. A heavily armed paramilitary group acting in an illegal and unconstitutional manner to attack, torment, and abduct a civilian populace? Why would I expect the US military to intervene against that?
Or just the soldiers here and there resist how they can and go to jail for refusing to pick up trash? This one leaves you with a National Guard completely not on your side instead of at least half on your side when you might need it most.
No. What we have is half gleefully oppressing people and the other half pretending they are sad while… oppressing people.
MAYBE they’ll grow a backbone down the line. All signs are that they’ll continue to refuse and people like you will continue to defend them because there might be consequences for them not forcing civilian populations to live in fear.
I’m saying right now it’s neither wise nor warranted, as messed up as it may sound.
When Trump actually orders them to do something unconstitutional, they can refuse it. When he refuses to step down from the end of his term as president and order them to crush the states that don’t ratify his third term, they can remove his ass.
But the things you want them to do right now, while I don’t inherently disagree with, just sound impulsive and foolish.
When he refuses to step down from the end of his term as president and order them to crush the states that don’t ratify his third term, they can remove his ass.
Sort of like back in 2021 when he led a violent coup with the goal of murdering Congress and the VPOTUS because he didn’t want to step down?
I am so glad that the military… let me check my notes… ah, yes. Waited to see who would win.
I am so glad that the military… let me check my notes… ah, yes. Waited to see who would win.
Are you a high schooler that just learned that being cynical will make you sound smarter among peers who don’t have the knowledge to challenge you?
Explain what should have happened in that scenario in your view.
Which person in the military has the authority to unilaterally deploy US Military personnel for the purposes of domestic law enforcement?
What authority allows them to ignore the Posse Comitatus Act, which explicitly does not allow the use of the Military for domestic law enforcement?
Or, if you want to go after the NG service members, what should they do as individuals in your mind? Should they refuse to leave their barracks? Maybe go to their commanding officer and ask to be arrested? What specific thing?
You’re throwing a lot of stones and summoning hypotheticals without any apparent understanding of how the military functions.
When playing war games, sacrifices are necessary. Nobody plays chess with the intention to save every piece. The other commenter is correct. If you have people stand up now, before a civil war is fully underway, you have no easy access to the weaponry, skill, etc, that is needed to take on the government. And honestly, it’s exactly what this adminstration wants.
The administration wants to stomp out any resistance. So, if soldiers start bucking, they’ll be kicked to the curb. Then, when the real shit hits the fan, we have nobody on our side in the military. You are coming at this with the idyllic perspective of soldiers standing up now and kicking off an internal war within the military. But that’s not how they work. The other commenter already mentioned how the UCMJ won’t give soldiers the time of day for this shit.
It’s easy to stand on top of your soapbox and broadcast your optimism and feel good that your protests are gonna actually make a change. They’re not. We’re totally fucked now. Do you not get it? We’re in the middle game. We have to start seeing what pieces we have to prepare for a worst case scenario in which, we are fighting the US government. That requires sacrifice. It requires calculation. It requires a persistent bad taste in your mouth, because folks like you want to live in an Elysium.
You have no idea how bad it can get, living under an authoritarian rule. This is nothing, right now, in the grand scheme of things. War is hell, as they say. And we’re about to see it. For my perspective; I’ve entered the “don’t give a fuck” stage. I have a family to protect and that is my one and only priority. As it is with many others. That’s the other point of view, you’re missing out on. It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be, and I wish it were. I wish we could value every human life and treat everyone with dignity and respect. Love and compassion. But we don’t. The mouth of hell is opening, and I’m looking at getting as far away as possible. Because, as in line with my beliefs, I refuse to take a human life. And that is quickly becoming what is required. And I will not abide by that.
My reply here is just to educate you on the intricacies of war and the violitle situation the United States finds itself in. I’m not trying to be difficult, rude, or aggressive. If I come off that way, it was not my intention. I hope you have a great day, and I hope that the country doesn’t fracture, but I fear it already is.
Something something, yeah son well I’m a secret navy seal and I’ll tell you that the marines are actually a culture that deeply values honor something something laughed at me while eating his snickers.
Still, gotta love how in your rant (I REALLY hope that is a copypasta and not something you thought up yourself…) you managed to combine “you are too soft and don’t understand what war is” with “the soldiers might get in twouble if they say anything”.
Which… about sums up America when you think about it.
You want the most uncomfortable truth of it all? What are you doing to stop this? What’s your role, mate? Or, do you want somebody else to have blood on their hands? That’s the crux of your argument. You want the NG to disregard these orders? Congratulations, you just helped fast track the military being filled with onlya sychophants. You want to NG to fight back against the government? That’s delightful. Will you be taking up arms, or just watching? If you’re gonna fight, why haven’t you already? Your rhetoric is empty, complacent, and devoid of any real action. Which…about sums up Americans when you think about it.
I never said you were too soft. You are not tactful, or strategic in your thinking. Which means, you don’t actually want to fight. You just want to feel good hyperbolizing in online debates.
M8 civilians don’t take oaths to protect the constitution. So asking one to do your job for you is in poor taste.
I get where you’re coming from. But collectively he is right. Individually you’re right. But eventually those two are gunna collide. We all know it. Because we all feel it. It is what it is. Until the battle lines are truly drawn we can’t naught but look or risk being sold a lie and acting on it.
Firstly, I am not US Military. I come from a very diverse background of people, some of which are US Military, which is only where my knowledge of certain military aspects come from. My response was delegated in such a way to demonstrate that the commenter I was replying to, had no forethought for what they were asking. If you’re in a situation where the US Military needs to turn on itself, civilians, by proxy, are involved in the war effort. That’s how rebellions work. They are, almost, never fought solely within the faction of government in which it’s taking place; not peacefully, that is. If that was not clear, then the fault is entirely my own.
Secondly, saying that, [collectively he’s right, but individually I’m right,] is by nature a paradox. If you’d like to point out which aspects of their argument you feel are correct, as well for mine, then you are welcome to do so.
Lastly, the whole entirety of my point is that, it behooves one strategic effort to keep as many allies within the current system, for as long as possible, to maintain access to weapons, skills, and intel, that would be needed for such a desperate war.
P.S. I’ve said this before, but the sad fact is, until middle class, white, white collar Americans start losing their rights en masse, there will be no civil war. We’re heading that way, but not there. The administration and SCOTUS, are being quite clever to not bother that base in such a way. So Americans, by and large, will continue this trajectory of getting up, going to work, and putting food on the table. Most Americans don’t care enough about the poor, the immigrants, the unhoused, the minorities, to take drastic enough action to initiate change on a large scale. I do think you are very apt in your words, “Until battle are truly drawn…”. We truly do not have enough information to act on. I appreciate your comment wholly and I enjoy being able to discuss things thoughtfully and respectfully. If you feel I have not done so, let me know as well.
Got it. Let he who has flipped the switch cast the first stone at the brave men and women manning the gas chambers!
Again. What do you think is going to happen to the people protesting and actually fighting against tyranny when ICE et al have had enough? Hell, the government is trying to send fucking Kat Abughazaleh to jail and she is a pretty white presenting politician with a large social media following.
But I get it. It is much easier for people who haven’t served to have a backbone and actually fight against tyranny. Because… they don’t know how good boot leather tastes?
Are you saying the National Guard should fight ICE right now?
Or are you saying the National Guard soldiers should frag their officers?
Or just the soldiers here and there resist how they can and go to jail for refusing to pick up trash? This one leaves you with a National Guard completely not on your side instead of at least half on your side when you might need it most.
Hmm. A heavily armed paramilitary group acting in an illegal and unconstitutional manner to attack, torment, and abduct a civilian populace? Why would I expect the US military to intervene against that?
No. What we have is half gleefully oppressing people and the other half pretending they are sad while… oppressing people.
MAYBE they’ll grow a backbone down the line. All signs are that they’ll continue to refuse and people like you will continue to defend them because there might be consequences for them not forcing civilian populations to live in fear.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t resist.
I’m saying right now it’s neither wise nor warranted, as messed up as it may sound.
When Trump actually orders them to do something unconstitutional, they can refuse it. When he refuses to step down from the end of his term as president and order them to crush the states that don’t ratify his third term, they can remove his ass.
But the things you want them to do right now, while I don’t inherently disagree with, just sound impulsive and foolish.
Sort of like back in 2021 when he led a violent coup with the goal of murdering Congress and the VPOTUS because he didn’t want to step down?
I am so glad that the military… let me check my notes… ah, yes. Waited to see who would win.
Are you a high schooler that just learned that being cynical will make you sound smarter among peers who don’t have the knowledge to challenge you?
Explain what should have happened in that scenario in your view.
Which person in the military has the authority to unilaterally deploy US Military personnel for the purposes of domestic law enforcement?
What authority allows them to ignore the Posse Comitatus Act, which explicitly does not allow the use of the Military for domestic law enforcement?
Or, if you want to go after the NG service members, what should they do as individuals in your mind? Should they refuse to leave their barracks? Maybe go to their commanding officer and ask to be arrested? What specific thing?
You’re throwing a lot of stones and summoning hypotheticals without any apparent understanding of how the military functions.
When playing war games, sacrifices are necessary. Nobody plays chess with the intention to save every piece. The other commenter is correct. If you have people stand up now, before a civil war is fully underway, you have no easy access to the weaponry, skill, etc, that is needed to take on the government. And honestly, it’s exactly what this adminstration wants.
The administration wants to stomp out any resistance. So, if soldiers start bucking, they’ll be kicked to the curb. Then, when the real shit hits the fan, we have nobody on our side in the military. You are coming at this with the idyllic perspective of soldiers standing up now and kicking off an internal war within the military. But that’s not how they work. The other commenter already mentioned how the UCMJ won’t give soldiers the time of day for this shit.
It’s easy to stand on top of your soapbox and broadcast your optimism and feel good that your protests are gonna actually make a change. They’re not. We’re totally fucked now. Do you not get it? We’re in the middle game. We have to start seeing what pieces we have to prepare for a worst case scenario in which, we are fighting the US government. That requires sacrifice. It requires calculation. It requires a persistent bad taste in your mouth, because folks like you want to live in an Elysium.
You have no idea how bad it can get, living under an authoritarian rule. This is nothing, right now, in the grand scheme of things. War is hell, as they say. And we’re about to see it. For my perspective; I’ve entered the “don’t give a fuck” stage. I have a family to protect and that is my one and only priority. As it is with many others. That’s the other point of view, you’re missing out on. It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be, and I wish it were. I wish we could value every human life and treat everyone with dignity and respect. Love and compassion. But we don’t. The mouth of hell is opening, and I’m looking at getting as far away as possible. Because, as in line with my beliefs, I refuse to take a human life. And that is quickly becoming what is required. And I will not abide by that.
My reply here is just to educate you on the intricacies of war and the violitle situation the United States finds itself in. I’m not trying to be difficult, rude, or aggressive. If I come off that way, it was not my intention. I hope you have a great day, and I hope that the country doesn’t fracture, but I fear it already is.
Something something, yeah son well I’m a secret navy seal and I’ll tell you that the marines are actually a culture that deeply values honor something something laughed at me while eating his snickers.
Still, gotta love how in your rant (I REALLY hope that is a copypasta and not something you thought up yourself…) you managed to combine “you are too soft and don’t understand what war is” with “the soldiers might get in twouble if they say anything”.
Which… about sums up America when you think about it.
You want the most uncomfortable truth of it all? What are you doing to stop this? What’s your role, mate? Or, do you want somebody else to have blood on their hands? That’s the crux of your argument. You want the NG to disregard these orders? Congratulations, you just helped fast track the military being filled with onlya sychophants. You want to NG to fight back against the government? That’s delightful. Will you be taking up arms, or just watching? If you’re gonna fight, why haven’t you already? Your rhetoric is empty, complacent, and devoid of any real action. Which…about sums up Americans when you think about it.
I never said you were too soft. You are not tactful, or strategic in your thinking. Which means, you don’t actually want to fight. You just want to feel good hyperbolizing in online debates.
M8 civilians don’t take oaths to protect the constitution. So asking one to do your job for you is in poor taste.
I get where you’re coming from. But collectively he is right. Individually you’re right. But eventually those two are gunna collide. We all know it. Because we all feel it. It is what it is. Until the battle lines are truly drawn we can’t naught but look or risk being sold a lie and acting on it.
Collective action is the smart play.
Firstly, I am not US Military. I come from a very diverse background of people, some of which are US Military, which is only where my knowledge of certain military aspects come from. My response was delegated in such a way to demonstrate that the commenter I was replying to, had no forethought for what they were asking. If you’re in a situation where the US Military needs to turn on itself, civilians, by proxy, are involved in the war effort. That’s how rebellions work. They are, almost, never fought solely within the faction of government in which it’s taking place; not peacefully, that is. If that was not clear, then the fault is entirely my own.
Secondly, saying that, [collectively he’s right, but individually I’m right,] is by nature a paradox. If you’d like to point out which aspects of their argument you feel are correct, as well for mine, then you are welcome to do so.
Lastly, the whole entirety of my point is that, it behooves one strategic effort to keep as many allies within the current system, for as long as possible, to maintain access to weapons, skills, and intel, that would be needed for such a desperate war.
P.S. I’ve said this before, but the sad fact is, until middle class, white, white collar Americans start losing their rights en masse, there will be no civil war. We’re heading that way, but not there. The administration and SCOTUS, are being quite clever to not bother that base in such a way. So Americans, by and large, will continue this trajectory of getting up, going to work, and putting food on the table. Most Americans don’t care enough about the poor, the immigrants, the unhoused, the minorities, to take drastic enough action to initiate change on a large scale. I do think you are very apt in your words, “Until battle are truly drawn…”. We truly do not have enough information to act on. I appreciate your comment wholly and I enjoy being able to discuss things thoughtfully and respectfully. If you feel I have not done so, let me know as well.