cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/50020239
Late to the party or now forced to admit it?
If Trump didn’t win they’d still be quiet
I agree. Its a clear pattern of behavior.
I’m curious how long it took for Vietnam
Most Americans still justify the war and think Vietnam betrayed us by not killing more of the communists.
:doomer:
absolutely not true
current: https://emersoncollegepolling.com/vietnam-survey/
historical: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334328/vietnam-war-us-public-opinion-mistake/
look at actual data before throwing around your doomer emojis
They only think it was a mistake because they lost and the hippie generation got PTSD.
you are a liberal
Fuck off and eat shit. How about you use some actual material analysis? Like did you even read your own source?
Perception of Veterans Affairs (VA)
7 in 10 adults say Vietnam veterans have not been treated well by the U.S. government in the years since the Vietnam War. Among veterans, 78% think Vietnam veterans have not been treated well by the government, and 23% think they have been treated well.
…and no where was My Lai mentioned. Americans do not give a shit about what we did to the Vietnamese people. They’re only upset because we lost the war and because they didn’t get to enjoy the spoils of imperialism. I’ll give a fuck Vietnam vets are mistreated by the US government when Vietnam veterans come forward about their war crimes and face the consequences of it.
But yeah sure. We’re the liberals because we think Americans don’t recognize what we did as crimes against humanity. It’s not like there’s a giant-ass memorial to the troops who died in Vietnam. Or that John Kerry’s presidential campaign sank when footage of him throwing his medals surfaced. Or Meghan McCain has a career because she goes on and on about her war criminal father being a POW (something Americans praise him for). Or that the US continues the same behavior it did in Vietnam with enthusiastic support of its population. Or that Vietnam doesn’t get reparations and trials of Americans whoremovedd and murdered their way across the country during an ecoterrorism campaign. Or that Henry Kissinger and Robert McNamara are buried at Arlington with honors instead of an unmarked grave at the bottom of a volcano.
Sure. Let’s ignore all the things Americans say and do (which is avoid calling what we did to Vietnam a crime against humanity on par with the Nazis) and take them at their word they are totally against the Vietnam War for the right reasons and not because it was a personal inconvenience.
Holy fuck are you gonna call us libs for disrespecting the troops next?
deleted by creator
Look at your second source. Look at the “not a mistake” percentage start out at 59% in 1965 and slowly walk down to around 40% in 1968 and then around 30% in mid-1971. The “was a mistake” crowd starts at 25% and over the same period walks up to 60%. i.e. it began with domestic popularity, as all US-promoted wars tend to, whip the libs up to fight the enemy, and then deteriorated as consequences built up. Then new narratives were created to cope with this reality. Much like with Iraq, many were apparently always against the war even though a couple years earlier they cheered on the cops against protesters. No concern for the much larger numbers of Vietnamese and Cambodians killed and injured really registered among the US masses, of course, despite the efforts of left organizers. That was never considered a mistake and still isn’t among Americans.
Regarding your first source, it is basically irrelevant. What Americans now think about the US war on Vietnam is entirely propaganda narrative.
There is nothing in “the data” contrary to what I said. Would you like to explain what is liberal about the basic realities of history and explaining your own sources back to you?
idk you really think the USA could win a war at that time and not mythologize it?
Kinda depends on how you define mainstream. The first real protests began in 1964. Muhammad Ali refused the draft in 1967 and MLK gave speeches about it that year.
Saving this article, not just because it makes a great point, but it’s also a great summary of all the horrible events and tactics of the IDF over these last two years. It will be useful to have that list the next time someone like Contrapoints tries to say it’s not THAT bad.
It’s such a fucking farce that the IOF is called the “most moral army in the world” when some of their actions would make even Genghis Khan uneasy.
Reminds me of how everyone was fine with the Syrian Civil War up until Asaad used chemical weapons and then the outrage briefly intensified.
Just have to defend my queen Ariana who has at least posted pro Palestine stuff before now, but is the thumbnail here
Somebody needs to let her eat cake
I wonder what flavor.
Something that sounds bougie and luxurious but it’s actually dead easy and cheap to make, like elderflower-infused Swiss buttercream.
OFF WITH THEY/THEIR HEAD!
(woke queen)
Yeah she definitely seemed to be in a different category than most of the people this article is talking about, who are liberal ghouls who’ve backed zionism their whole lives finally changing their tune (barely). Should be Obama in the thumbnail.
Ariana Latte? what’s her deal
She is in her caucasiana era currently-
The american population almost entirely takes its opinions from the two political parties. And by extension, so do “mainstream voices” that have any intent of cultivating a brand in America.
Both sides of the political spectrum in the US literally just parrot whatever the party line is. They didn’t give a fuck about the kids in cages at the border once Biden was in power, but they screamed about it while Trump was there.
If Biden were still in power, the population would be playing down Palestine, just as it was doing before Kamala lost. The narrative has only run away from the democrats slightly because some in the population see it as something to beat Trump over the head with, the leadership doesn’t want that but they can’t fully control it.
Leftist growth and propaganda power in America is stronger when the right is in power.
Damn, it’s almost as though those of us with a lifetime of American political experience know what we are talking about. I swear I’m not bitter.
There’s also a lot of old liberals who have never really learned from experience. They just don’t seem to know any better.
I’ve never seen an old liberal that lives badly though. They’re all quite comfortable. The combination of political experience and struggle to survive is what rips people out of it.
Old liberals also have seen real progress from a purely social level, with an increase in technological complexity. They just don’t seem to understand that all the economic benefits they enjoy are created at the expense of the younger generations of workers who will now never get to enjoy the luxury of retiring.
As well they don’t seem to understand that it wasn’t caused by their central party’s political movement, but by progressive activists forcing their hand.
Being a leftist is just being correct first.
Cassandra complex is real
Starvation is the red line. How about well fed and still bombed to smithereens? Probably back to a gray area with lots of nuance.
Using siege warfare to deliberately starve Gaza for the previous 22 months wasn’t enough.
But now that starvation has hit a critical point and deaths from malnutrition are skyrocketing, now that images of dead skeletal children are filling our screens, now that the damage to organs and brains from starvation will be irreversible in many cases — now it’s enough.
That was the line, apparently. That’s what mainstream western consciousness has decided is too much. Everything up until that line was fine, but now it’s not fine anymore.
Another great article by Caitlin Johnstone. I don’t think though, that mass starvation truly was a moral “red line” that woke even hardened zionists up.
It’s simply, that the big zionist propaganda institutions speak up, now that it’s to late, because it’s to late. Not necessarily to late for the people alive in Palestine, who still desperately need all the help they can get of course, but they never cared about those anyway. The point is, it’s to late to seriously harm Israels public image. They already did every crime there is in the world, inventing many new ones on the way and live streamed it all.
The New York Times publishing that article recently might just be a calculated move. They are not at all reversing their line of never doing anything, that might worsen Israels public image. They simply recognized, that speaking up now doesn’t really matter anymore, so they might as well. All the horrors have been so incredibly public and obvious for such a long time anyway, that propaganda slowly starts to lose part of it’s effect even on western liberals.
All the horrors have been so incredibly public and obvious for such a long time anyway, that propaganda slowly starts to lose part of it’s effect even on western liberals.
Yeah it’s about credibility. They need to remain effective and “impartial” in the eyes of some amount of the population. If they never admit it, or admit it only after it’s long done people will question that. But admit at the late hour, draw attention to it and you’re now “brave” and speaking truth to power and if some info comes out later showing you should have said something 12 months ago well then you made a simple “mistake” or were “misled” by those dastardly mustache-twirling zionists who hypnotized you into believing them (and you assure your readers you had good reasons to at the time but you’re “sorry” and in future you’ll be “more careful”).
Nothing could be more illustrative than Klobuchar making that speech literally a week after smiling for a photo op with Netanyahu. It’s so on the nose for the pivot these types of people are doing to save their credibility/cover their asses that it wouldn’t work as satire for being too obvious.
Yeah by like 77 years
