Is it possible ? Can US americans revolt against their own government ?
No it’s communism
The state necessarily has a monopoly on violence; it’s part of what makes it the State. But what choice do the People have when the power of the state is seized by a group determined to use that power against its own population? The USA is famously “invasion proof” but there is nothing in place to protect us from such abuse. The only response that could stop a protracted guerilla style resistance is the total dissolution of the senate and house with immediate emergency elections to replace 100% of the members
The monopoly on violence for the most part comes from the military, so the choice they have is a military coup. Problem is he’s stacked the military with loyalists. But also what you said.
I mean this is actually what the second amendment was for, it would be nice if the NRA said something.
If you go left enough you get your guns back.
He stacked military leadership with loyalists. It’s still each and every individual soldiers responsibility to determine for themselves whether they will follow an order if they believe it to be unjust. Many in the military are Maga, but there will be many that would refuse such orders as well… Basically, I’m just trying to say the military isn’t a hivemind. If orders came down to attack us citizens, I’d hope there’d be significant pushback throughout the ranks.
Refuse an order, get court martialled despite all your rights, get dishobourably discharged and lose your livelihood, all for some people you dont know, and greatly negatively affect the lives of those you provide for.
Be careful though, emergency dissolution of the Senate is exactly how Palpatine gained power. There has to be a careful plan and new system ready to go and not just fall to the one person it shouldn’t.
I know it’s fiction, but just saying. Dissolving it is one thing, but having a coherent plan is another.
That’s what all their guns are for, right? Not just for shooting minorities and kids, right?
Whoa now. That’s dangerously close to sounding reasonable. We don’t do that here.
I mean yes, but most of the gun owners in this country will rise up and stand on the side of tyranny.
…yeah. Yeah, i mean, totally. Yeah.
Aaaaaaaaaanyways, im super into pacifism now.
It’s a great way to get arrested or killed, scare people away from resistance for fear of their safety, and embolden fascism by turning a constitutionally protected peaceful resistance into a domestic threat.
How many people with guns do you estimate it takes to overthrow the largest military in the world by force?
Dude the president just declared birthright citizenship illegal and deployed the mari!es to crack down on peaceful protests against ice blatant violating the 4th amemdment.
Nobody. Gives. A. Shit. About your fucking constitution.
No, he didn’t. He wrote an executive order. That’s not a law. It’s a directive to the executive branch, and we are in no way obligated to follow it as citizens.
SCOTUS ruled that a district judge cannot impose a nationwide injunction against the executive order. Each judge will now have to rule on the case of birthright citizenship independently. The 14th amendment is very clear.
THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT MEAN JACK SHIT TO NAZIS.
FUCK OFF, SHITLIB.
Then why haven’t we been arrested for protesting yet? Oh, right, because it’s still protected.
Maybe you should talk to a therapist about those big feelings instead of typing all caps and name-calling.
The big word is YET.
They are funding ICE with 10 billion dollars. ICE will not be used just for immigration. It will be filled with Nationalist goons and thugs and ICE will be the group that goes after citizens and dissenters.
Give it a year and large protests against the current regime will probably not be allowed.
So you think it makes sense to bring violence and provoke that step before we have the numbers we need for a successful resistance, rather than continuing to grow our numbers under our legal protections?
Do you see how your argument makes no sense?
He declared, and people are going along. ‘Law’ does not seem to matter here.
We are not obligated as citizens. Thats what the men with guns are for.
scotus says
Thats some tepid-ass bullshit for a part of thr constitution, it almost doesnt matter that the administration is going to wipe their asses with it.
So because you believe something will happen, we should lead a small, unsuccessful, violent revolution to ensure that it does happen?
How about you keep your big feelings to yourself while the people who have successfully grown a resistance from a few hundred thousand to ~10M in four months continue to successfully plan and execute a real resistance.
You use that phrase a lot. I feel like you’re not actually reading what im typing.
It’s not a resistance if it can’t actually do anything. I’m not sure the milder thing is necessarily the easy sell.
What about growing numbers is confusing to you? 10M people is ~2% of our nation. We couldn’t collectively get anything done, yet. We’re growing a resistance through organized protests.
You clearly haven’t read enough on the topic. Do some research and then we can talk. Until then, your opinion is woefully uninformed.
One good guy with a 9mm is all it takes to take down a bad guy with 300 reaper drones
50 million? The population of the US is something like 340 million and there are more guns than people in this country.
Cool. Our largest nationwide protest was ~11M, most of whom were elderly. So you agree we need to grow our numbers.
Small factions of violence have historically proven to reduce resistance numbers and justify the implementation of assembly-restricting legislation.
Just look how effective Luigi was to scare the owner class for a few months. Wish it could keep happening.
Yeah. The protests are always elderly, disabled, and pacifist. Boy the Nazis sure are terrified of you.
tThe scary part to me is the imbalance of power and how few are aware of it. Yeah we have a bunch.of guns around here, but how many people actually can use them in a meaningful way? How many would know what to do if THEY were being shot at? Handful of retired vets, some people with a little training, but few have ever experienced active combat.
Never mind the fact that money is the real deal breaker. Government has drones upon drones. They have satellite imagery, cameras all over the place, they could easily shut down phone and internet connectivity as well as power. Collect phone data off of a certain area, set up a perimeter and use everyone stupid phones as a tracking beacon. Send in some drones for visibility some for strikes and push in military to clean up what’s left.
Thats the thing nobody talks about. Going from our current pseudo-democracy to totalitarianism is little more than the flip of a switch by a crazy old man. They are under the illusion that it can’t or won’t happen. It 100% can. Nobody gives a shit about the nowhere places like great plains states, it would happen in major cities and surrounding regions. Take over, set up checkpoints. Once under control, sell them off to billionaires who would enact all their crazy control fetishes. One for zuck, one for theil, bezos will want one, maybe musky. Some people will escape to the useless regions like the south, central states or whatever, nobody will bother too much. If some sort of resistance grows, drop a few bombs to remind them that they’re being watched. Cut off food, energy, blow upna few bridges and roads wait until winter.
I’m sure multiple versions of this have been modeled out within the military intelligence groups. Nobody is coming to save us. The rich people dont give a shit about this country, they only care about themselves. Nobody in the military is going to stage a coup, they would not stand a chance anyway and it would be a death sentence for anyone they know or love.
The only hope is that the crazy old bastard dies before he really decides to go full Looney toons. Its clear who runs this country; they always have but now they are no longer content to own an absurd amount of it, they want it ALL.
I wasn’t suggesting we become violent yet, I was just answering your question. The population is definitely large enough for these protests and a violent revolution if it’s ever required.
The population is, sure. The important thing to remember is that a violent resistance will always be smaller than a peaceful one, and the current size of our peaceful resistance is too small for a violent resistance to succeed.
The only times americans revolted against their government was when americans were fighting to KEEP slavery. So I wouldnt get my hopes up.
While this is true, the Million Man March was not supposed to be a peaceful protest. Malcolm X talked about how Martin Luther King’s speech pacified what could have been a turning point in history.
Also the government has destroyed any positive movements but making laws indirectly making those movements illegal and killing leaders of any significant movement.
The anti marijuana laws is a great example of shutting down a hippie movement and any positive black groups at the time.
The killing of leaders is also particularly damaging because new leaders weren’t able to trust people in their own organization. For example the man that killed Malcolm X was from his own movement. This created paranoia for people with in the movements.
When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.
-United States Declaration of Independence
The declaration really can’t be highlighted like that. It undermines the gravity of the letter, but I understand people don’t like to read.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
Essentially, they say that people are willing to endure suffering for the sake of not having to change their lives. But Then it follows that with
But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism
When all people can no longer ignore that the government is forcing everything to have an absolute ruler, the people will come to the conclusion that the government must end by force.
While a lot of people agree with this, it’s not enough. When I go to work, everyone is still going about their day like nothing has really changed. Too many people still have shelter, food, and medicine. That’s about to change now. And when people experience that, that is the time they will overthrow.
The reason they want revolutionary violence to occur earlier than later is because they still have the opportunity to turn the most brain washed against the rest of us.
My guess is that their revolt will be similar as the recent Chinese and Russian ones.
They revolted?
They’re revolting…
There’s a revolt in China and Russia?
Yes, a non existent one.
I think I finally got it 🤣
I also needed the explanation 🤣
Same. I think the revolt is a second peaceful protest and then bending over for centuries.
I work for an US company and I got a day off, it is curious, cause Im from Costa Rica, and I belong to the bribri indigenous nation, and we commemorate Pa Bru day, an ancient leader who stopped Spanish incursions to our land in 1710. So I wish, from the deepest of my soul and for my ancestor that you, US fellows, rebel!
How about a general strike? More than protests but non-violent.
I think it will take more than that to take down a terrorist organization unfortunately
The thing is that the average person in the US still have it pretty good, because they still have their bread and circus to distract them from the creeping fascist takeover.
When people refer to those instances in history where non-violent protest succeeded, the average person was much more afflicted, as in with literal risk of starvation or similar. Modern dictators have long since learnt that you just need to ensure very basic means of sustenance and a helluva lot of entertainment (provided with the willing help of the tech bro oligarchs), to keep the general populace content with events.
I 100% support a general strike, but (1) I think that’s a lot more difficult to organize than revolt, which can be spontaneous, and (2) I don’t think a general strike and a revolt are mutually exclusive tactics.
It sucks that the USA is associated with the bald eagle because IMO it’s still a beautiful bird and it did nothing to deserve the association. And also for me, the fact that they sound like seagulls makes them even more relatable because it has an annoying voice just like me 😆
Ikr, they sound so funny and not at all like the majestic yet hyper masculine beasts they are usually portrayed as.
They’re wimpy birds and eat dead shit like vultures. I hate bald eagles.
We need to grow our numbers! The only way we can do that is with continued non-violent organized protest. Violence will only reduce our numbers and suppress our resistance.
Erica Chenoweth has a very well researched presentation on the success of non-violent resistance overthrowing dictatorships with only 3.5% of the population. I highly recommend it.
Come out today for the Free America protest! We also have the Good Trouble Lives On protest on July 17th.
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They’re finally doing one on a weekday? Excellent. I like the concept of these protests but they seem so trivial when they involve people pretty much just hanging out with signs in front of empty government buildings. Having it on a weekday means disrupting business and work schedules. Don’t let them ignore you.
I still cannot fathom why they scheduled on a weekday for the next one. If you want turnout schedule for the weekends.
I know people should go out regardless, but they have bills to pay. A lot of people can’t afford to miss a shift and vacation time is far too limited
Because defending your democracy isn’t a weekend fucking sport. How many days a week are the fascists trying to tear down your democracy? Because that’s the same energy you need to bring to defend it.
No need to come at me, the fact of the matter is the majority of people won’t take time. I take the time, but most won’t. If you want the biggest impact you’ll always draw the largest crowds on a weekend.
I don’t disagree with you I’m just being pragmatic. A protest of 1,500 is a bigger deal than a protest of 200. That’s the typical difference in my city with weekend vs weekday protests
No, they need to be on weekdays. They need to disrupt business and be visible. Weekend protests in front of empty government buildings are worthless.
Edit: worthless was the wrong word. They’re not worthless, they just seem too easy to ignore for rich politicians who just go to one of their vacation homes every weekend. Or stay at home in their giant homes outside the city.
It just simply won’t have the same turnout. Frankly I think weekend protests are more visible since the average person is more likely to be out and about and not at their job.
I think making the people see it and then you pressure the politicians. The politicians don’t give a fuck if thousands of people are gathered outside a building.
I attend my local protests and take the time off to do so. The last no kings protests pulled well over 1,000. Other weekend protests typically pull around 300 - 400 people. Weekday protests typically pull barely 100, if we’re lucky 150 people. It just has less impact.
Hmm. Yeah, maybe. It just seems too easy to ignore the weekend protests. Everyone who has power and money are elsewhere on Saturdays.
At least in my city we are fortunate that the government buildings are located at a key intersection. Weekdays we usually just get heckled by lead brained boomers. Weekends there are way more cars, a more diverse audience, and more support in general.
Fair enough. I work weekends so I haven’t been able to attend any of these yet, and was surprised I can finally go to one. You seem to base your opinions on first hand experience.
The lead brained boomers are the ones who need to see it most.
There is little value in preaching to the choir.
I think the lead brained boomers are a lost cause.
The group to convince are the unengaged or those that just vote a certain way without putting much thought.
I work weekends, so it’s hard for me to attend weekday stuff. But I took off of work on a Saturday to protest, because we need people out there. So I say do it on the weekdays too, and have people call-in to work to go
Peaceful disruption by having mass call-ins on protest days; because it matters and it makes the protests harder to ignore when people aren’t going into work every time a protest happens. Keep it happening, and keep the pressure up. I can’t afford a vacation anyway, so I’ll save my PTO to get out there and call-in to work whenever
My time off is my time off, don’t matter why. I’m calling-in because it’s none of their business. It’s just a “sick day” cause I’m fucking sick (of the atrocities being normalized and the utter disintelligence spreading like wildfire)
Smaller protests are fine, cause people can’t afford to be at every single one. But everyone can afford to be at as many as possible. Than you have a constant force that’s more likely to crest
First past the post voting system isn’t democratic and can easily be corrupted by Gerrymandering.
I mean yeah, I vibe with this, but did you mean to reply to something else? 😄
No, I meant that revolting against a government without an election system change is replacing one almost dictatorship with another.
I mean again, yeah, I’m an anarchist, and obviously not just any revolt is gonna cut it. Although instead of an election system to elect representatives in a “representative” liberal “democracy”, I think we can do a lot better than that.
I’ll believe it when I see it. The Americans seem perfectly content with how things are.
The MAGAts are the ones content. Majority are not.
Lisa murkowski can catch these hands.
Long live King George III
Fuck off
I was born and raised here in the United States, just like my father, and his father, and so on for several generations. You fuck off. You and your disgusting fucking federal government. May you all rot in hell.
May you all rot in hell.
You’re already a rotten creature.
no u
May you all rot in hell.
They’ve strayed so far from the teachings of their own god, I’m fairly certain that’s the biblically prescribed punishment.
deleted by creator
You’re Canadian, why are you getting your panties in a bunch by inserting yourself into a back and forth of an American telling Magat to “Fuck off”? Canada Day was 3 days ago.
I also wish all Canadians a very pleasant revolt against your government, but it’s not their day today 😆
Because rot tends to spread. And you’re poasting internationally.
So, someone within America has a negative view about the current American government and their supporters and you want to show them the error of their ways? So, this person you take issue with. Who is wishing ill of the supporters of the government attempting to bring about the end of social equity and expand the class divide of people based on financial income and the inalienable physical characteristics of people outside of white European descent, like the Jim Crow era, that’s rot? That’s what you’re saying. Fuck off, man.
Actually they never said anything in support of equality.
Fuck off, man.
No, but thanks for the offer.
Seems like it spread to you already
no u
The boots must be tasty over there
I can’t tell if these people are Russian agents trying to undermine Western culture, or just rabid morons who want to create misery for even more people. Either way, this kind of post is my least favorite thing about lemmy.
“western culture”
🤮Woah Buddy Hoser! Go back to Reddit Eh?
Nah fuck Russia and fuck all other world governments. I’m undermining Western culture for the love of the game 🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
Respectable af 🏴🚩
