Often the subject of disagreement, Voyager is talked about poorly by some and praised by others. Seeing plenty of posts about it here. Well ya know - I think Voyager is underrated.
That show took risks. They ran some stories that were just risky in terms of writing and production - sometimes it was a hit, sometimes a stinker. That’s why it has some amazing episodes and some really really stupid ones, because they were willing to take a chance on something uncertain. And I respect that, too many shows these days feel like the same recycled crap because television has become so risk-averse and they’re not willing to take a chance on something that might turn out dumb.
So we got ones like the infamous warp 10 episode, and those are remembered as cases where the show got really dumb. But as an example, Seven of Nine could’ve completely bombed that show. Yes it looked like they were bringing on a bimbo for sex appeal, and they absolutely could’ve went that route with her. Fans might’ve hated the change no matter what. I mean, that’s a big deal, losing a main character and adding a new one - shows don’t always survive that.
Also there are things I notice from a production standpoint. From reading about the making of TNG, one thing I remember is them talking about never wanting to damage the costumes or get them dirty, or damage the set. That increases their production costs, cheaper to just not do that.
But Voyager does this all the time. Uniforms are always getting burned and torn, Neelix spills things on his shirt, the bridge is shown being blown up or completely transformed. All the times they have smoke inside there, there’s something with water, parts are broken off - that’s something they had to clean up for the next episode. If they show burn marks on the captain’s chair, that means they’ll have to be cleaned or the whole prop replaced, at the risk of it not being identical or impossible to fix.
So the point is - respect for taking those risks. Didn’t always land, but plenty of them did.
@catshit_dogfart Voyager was my main Trek when I was younger and will always be my favourite. Janeway was awesome, and it’s location in the Delta quadrant, far from Starfleet, made for some unique story opportunities.
When Seven was introduced, I was already bitter about the move Sliders made to remove a beloved character and bring on a hot woman, so I was really upset that Voyager did the same. But grew to love the character over time.
Voyager was fantastic & made me a Trek fan.
I’m still really sad that Kes was written off. Got no problem with Seven, but Kes was a good character on her own.
But, Neelix was pretty crap until Kes was removed from the show. Without her to be constantly jealous of, Neelix finally started to be useful and interesting.
I agree 100%, his spat with Tom was annoying, I liked him better once she was out of the picture.
I think the character of Kes was very poorly written. It limited the acting range of Jennifer Lien, which is only really given a chance to shine in the episode Warlord.
A feel like that Ronald D. Moore rant that came out after he left the show really damaged the perception of the show in many fan circles. This damage getting even worse when Moore went on to create BSG which is some spectacular television.
Many of the continuity/‘reset button’ complaints seem to stem from it and today even Moore admits that he was being unreasonably harsh on the show. His issue was with Brannon Braga and his own problems taking instruction/being led by somebody he’s had creative clashes with who used to just be a colleague.
But Voyager could not and never would be BSG. The Federation is far more advanced than the colonies were as a prime sticking point. Are we really going to see the ship get damage over the course of the series as though replicators aren’t onboard?
Did Voyager play it safe in some areas? Sure. But it was a network tent pole for UPN. Much of the aspects of DS9 that people love wouldn’t exist without Voyager being the ‘star’ at the time at taking the networks attention. Not to mention that DS9 was as bad for, if not worse at reset buttons - remember that pylon that got blown up and was just fine the next ep? Remember how they blew up the Defiant and just went ‘lol here’s a new one with different carpet’ for the finale?
That was just the reality of TV at the time. CG got significantly cheaper in the years after they both went off air - as evidenced even within Trek with the persistent damage in Enterprises third season.
I’m also really glad that you mentioned Seven and how brave they were with a number of those stories. There was clearly network pressure for ‘T&A’ and they could have gone the very easy (TNG) route of having a character in a skin tight outfit that rotates through love interest and sexual assault plots for focus episodes but otherwise just stands around stating the obvious (Sorry Troi), instead they introduced an attractive character in a catsuit and immediately made her but heads with the Captain, run around like a maverick and in the process gave us one of Treks very best character development arcs (somewhat at the expense of other members of the cast mind).
We also have to remember that they wanted (and needed due to VHS recorders being unreliable at best) a show where you could kiss a few episodes but still tune in and have a good time. I think, perhaps better than any other Trek Voyager succeeded in its aims in this regard.
I really enjoyed Voyager and still watch episodes regularly. For me it was the idea of being so far from the “known universe” and what that would be like.
Voyager gets unnecessarily picked on. It’s a little weak in the first few seasons, but even those have some standout eps. When Seven shows up, it gets even better.
I think all of the 90s and 00s era series hit their stride in season 4.
I totally agree. Voyager is what got me really into Trek. It really set the tone that it’s easy/easier to live by the high minded, aspirational values of the federation when resources are abundant to infinite, but Voyager showed us that those values just as important if not moreso in the darkness.
And let’s be honest, Sisko didn’t really even seem to subscribe to those values, so DS9 wasn’t similar in that regard.
In my view, having rewatched Voyager again decades after first run, the show not only took successful risks in several episodes like the Demon duology or The Thaw, it has some ‘best ever’ episodes for employing some classic Star Trek tropes.
At the time, I suspect some fans focused on the ‘not new idea’ more than ‘did it better than’ but at this point it’s fairly clear.
For fans who came to Voyager first (including our kids), the original TOS and TNG episodes that Voyager built upon just seem weak by comparison.
More, when SNW does something similar, people are viewing these kind of episodes from the perspective of how well done within a type rather than criticizing them for reworking a trope.
I love voyager the most because the crew became a family.
When it comes to family we tend to make different decisions when it’s about making sure they are safe and cared for. imo that’s what made capt janeway different from picard or sisko. People tend to push her as being irrational but being a parent, that happens. I think that’s why i loved picard, and i love season 3 more than any episode of TNG.
And obviously the situation they were in was completely different. I totally agree with you about the budget. It is all about the money in the end for all things. They had a planet of the week sound stage to save money. Makes sense. Even the new shows have a budget.
Voyager got me into star trek. Whilst it’s not my go-to to rewatch, I find myself thinking about it more often than any other show. The “cut off from rest of human civilization” is just too good.
With you on this one. I was still pretty young when Voyager first aired and remember being very disappointed by the addition of Seven of Nine, whereas as an adult yes clearly she was added and costumed for a specific purpose but she’s also a genuinely great character.
I loved the Doctor and the moral questions surrounding him just as much as I’d loved the same with Data as a kid.
Janeway was an exciting new take on a captain and Tuvix controversy aside I really looked up to her.
And let’s be honest if you’re looking for examples of terrible episodes that defy explanation you’ll find them in every Trek franchise. TNG will always be my favourite but it has so many absolute clangers.
Tuvix.
Voyager was rerunning on Spike TV right around the time I was getting into highschool and it really got me into trek. I know DS9 purists and TNG era fans think it sub par, but I really enjoyed the show having serialized mini plots alongside the season long arcs of finding ways to get home faster. Not to mention the show spanning plot of returning from the Delta quadrant in general keeping them in the same direction with the series. It felt like you got the continuity of DS9 with the TNG era “alien of the week” style thrown in.
Plus when I was a kid I played the absolute shit out of Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force and damn that one is still fun to this day.
I agree with this, and to put it politely Voyager is far from my favorite Trek show. I understand that the main reason for this is that I didn’t click with the main cast as so many who love Voyager do, and that is 100% subjective. Even though I like fewer episodes than I dislike which I’ve seen, the appeal for someone whose taste is different than mine is obvious. Every trek show has oddness or persistent issues but these are typically forgivable because of the other strengths of the show. That the strengths of this show didn’t click with me doesn’t mean it’s nothing more than its bad parts. All this being said I love the character of Janeway and Kate Mulgrew’s performance as the character. I also find it amusing the extremely high number of times the character has been performed committing atrocities even though in most ;) instances it wasn’t the real prime Janeway.
I love Voyager!
I’m a Voyager fan, I grew up watching reruns on Spike in the mid 00s. Does it have issues? Absolutely. Is it still probably my second favorite Trek ever? Yeah, right after DS9.
One of the issues I think voyager faced is trek fatigue.
That was at a time where major overarching universes were not a thing. People were not use to a universe being on the air as much as it was. Then fans were upset because how dare it have a female captain. Mix in a lot of other sci Fi on tv, voyager was in a tough spot.
Today I think fans are seeing it for what it was supposed to be. You can put it on and enjoy an episode while on your phone. No need to overly focus, no huge plot lines. Just what rank is Tom that season.
