“This is the new model, where you work in these plants for the rest of your life, and your kids work here, and your grandkids work here,” U.S. Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick says.
Ok, so a few points, from a lifelong industrial OEM technician:
First of all, there’s nothing wrong with factory jobs IF your employer takes care of its workers, that’s a big “if” but one all the world’s workers should take care of, since manufacturing is of course one of the biggest areas of employment and it’s not going away anytime soon.
My job, working for an equipment manufacturer, can be quite enjoyable and well paid, again depending on the employer, I’d advice any technically inclined individual to look into it. St the same time, I’d never work as a maintenance tech in a factory, that’s usually a very stressful job, with emergency work in poor condition, often pushed to work unsafely because of the rush, on old machines often dirty or in poor repair.
Still, I’ve seen some people make quite a comfortable position in that setting, so it may not be all bad.
As for pay, I think pay should depend mostly on 3 factors: effort, skill and comfort. Those who work harder, are more skilled and are forced into unpleasant settings should be paid more. If you want a more comfortable job you cannot expect to make more than a good, equally skilled worker who’s in noisy, dangerous or disgusting environments, and so on.
I don’t understand the intergenerational employment point, that sounds sorta dystopic and has no connection to the rest of the argument.
You won’t be well paid, you will not have benefits, you will be forbidden from unionizing, you will have very little say about the particular job you work or the schedule you’re given. You’ll take what you get or starve in the streets. It’s disingenuous to act like “factory work” will resemble the good factory jobs that currently exist.
And that’s the problem! These jobs may be okay for now but the people running the government, including the clown in the article, actively wants to make it worse.
I didn’t realize that I could be a toolmaker when I grew up until I was already grown up.
I fucking love my job. If I had realized how cool this job was when I was in high school I’d be one of the most well paid people in my field right now. As it is I’m just doing pretty well.
Industrial jobs definitely aren’t for everyone, but that’s literally any job. I left a comfortable office job for the trades because those jobs aren’t for everyone either. And I’m far happier for it.
I only contract in upstate NY but the manufacturing facilities were specifically placed in areas that will support the bare minimum wage and consistently have supply and or facility issues due to the location. A major pharma organization draining water towers. A large toothpaste manufacturer neglecting PRVs the decades and constantly shooting silica’s into the air.
I see great potential in these facilities but i am ALWAYS reminded of the shit business practices i see even when they cause the company to lose money.
Sure some of these places will prosper but most will crumble inside 5 years and displace a lot of people.
Aside from what @SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone wrote, ideally we’ll reduce human labor to overseeing machines, at least on industrial lines, over time.
Development of technology isnt always progress. Sometimes its a step backwards.
Progress depends on if it does good or bad. If it just causes a greater disparity of wealth (while building crappy machines that are designed for obsolescence and people dont need), then it is not progress.
Example: looms are arguably progress (almost everyone needs cloth). Robots that manufacturer ICE SUVs are not progress (making more gas guzzlers is causing mass extinction).
Great question. Work-related musculoskeletal disorders are more difficult to avoid when tasks are repetitive, forceful, and/or use a limited range of motion. Implementing a “stretch and flex” type program, completing thorough ergonomic evaluations (and actually following through with their findings), and rotating workers through various tasks that change the motions performed and body parts being stressed will knock down injuries considerably.
Considering they’re working on getting rid of lunch or bathroom breaks this is just a fantasy… is it possible to have decent factory jobs? Sure. Will that be what’s given to you as an option? Absolutely not
This must be prevented from happening, once it becomes the institutional norm it will be so difficult to reverse course
I agree this “factory jobs for everyone and their children” bullshit needs to be prevented, but what I listed isn’t just a fantasy. It’s literally a major part of what I do for a living. It’s all I did for a time when I was a consultant. Employers who are smart enough to have any concern for long-term sustainability and profitability take this quite seriously as it’s not just ethically the “right thing to do”, it’s a smart business move.
Ok, so a few points, from a lifelong industrial OEM technician:
First of all, there’s nothing wrong with factory jobs IF your employer takes care of its workers, that’s a big “if” but one all the world’s workers should take care of, since manufacturing is of course one of the biggest areas of employment and it’s not going away anytime soon.
My job, working for an equipment manufacturer, can be quite enjoyable and well paid, again depending on the employer, I’d advice any technically inclined individual to look into it. St the same time, I’d never work as a maintenance tech in a factory, that’s usually a very stressful job, with emergency work in poor condition, often pushed to work unsafely because of the rush, on old machines often dirty or in poor repair.
Still, I’ve seen some people make quite a comfortable position in that setting, so it may not be all bad.
As for pay, I think pay should depend mostly on 3 factors: effort, skill and comfort. Those who work harder, are more skilled and are forced into unpleasant settings should be paid more. If you want a more comfortable job you cannot expect to make more than a good, equally skilled worker who’s in noisy, dangerous or disgusting environments, and so on.
I don’t understand the intergenerational employment point, that sounds sorta dystopic and has no connection to the rest of the argument.
You won’t be well paid, you will not have benefits, you will be forbidden from unionizing, you will have very little say about the particular job you work or the schedule you’re given. You’ll take what you get or starve in the streets. It’s disingenuous to act like “factory work” will resemble the good factory jobs that currently exist.
If that’s what it takes for Americans to reach their limit and claw back some dignity from their owners…
I agree that the work isn’t too bad if you’re the right type of person. We have pretty good rules from OSHA.
TBH though the intergenerational employment and company towns angle makes it seem like all the rules are going to be discarded so I’m a bit concerned
Not for long!
And that’s the problem! These jobs may be okay for now but the people running the government, including the clown in the article, actively wants to make it worse.
I didn’t realize that I could be a toolmaker when I grew up until I was already grown up.
I fucking love my job. If I had realized how cool this job was when I was in high school I’d be one of the most well paid people in my field right now. As it is I’m just doing pretty well.
Industrial jobs definitely aren’t for everyone, but that’s literally any job. I left a comfortable office job for the trades because those jobs aren’t for everyone either. And I’m far happier for it.
I only contract in upstate NY but the manufacturing facilities were specifically placed in areas that will support the bare minimum wage and consistently have supply and or facility issues due to the location. A major pharma organization draining water towers. A large toothpaste manufacturer neglecting PRVs the decades and constantly shooting silica’s into the air.
I see great potential in these facilities but i am ALWAYS reminded of the shit business practices i see even when they cause the company to lose money.
Sure some of these places will prosper but most will crumble inside 5 years and displace a lot of people.
How is it possible to avoid repetitive stress injury on an assembly line? Seems inevitable.
Aside from what @SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone wrote, ideally we’ll reduce human labor to overseeing machines, at least on industrial lines, over time.
Replacing humans with machines generally results in greater disparity of wealth, historically
You still can’t stop progress, so you’ve got to solve that issue another way
If you don’t own the machines you should get supplemental income from being displaced.
You should get income regardless
Development of technology isnt always progress. Sometimes its a step backwards.
Progress depends on if it does good or bad. If it just causes a greater disparity of wealth (while building crappy machines that are designed for obsolescence and people dont need), then it is not progress.
Example: looms are arguably progress (almost everyone needs cloth). Robots that manufacturer ICE SUVs are not progress (making more gas guzzlers is causing mass extinction).
Don’t confuse technological and societal progress.
It may not be positive for society, but you still can’t stop progress, if you don’t develop what’s possible, someone else will.
Great question. Work-related musculoskeletal disorders are more difficult to avoid when tasks are repetitive, forceful, and/or use a limited range of motion. Implementing a “stretch and flex” type program, completing thorough ergonomic evaluations (and actually following through with their findings), and rotating workers through various tasks that change the motions performed and body parts being stressed will knock down injuries considerably.
Considering they’re working on getting rid of lunch or bathroom breaks this is just a fantasy… is it possible to have decent factory jobs? Sure. Will that be what’s given to you as an option? Absolutely not
This must be prevented from happening, once it becomes the institutional norm it will be so difficult to reverse course
I agree this “factory jobs for everyone and their children” bullshit needs to be prevented, but what I listed isn’t just a fantasy. It’s literally a major part of what I do for a living. It’s all I did for a time when I was a consultant. Employers who are smart enough to have any concern for long-term sustainability and profitability take this quite seriously as it’s not just ethically the “right thing to do”, it’s a smart business move.