Where on the internet is the anti-AI crowd at large talking about divine sparks of creativity? I am the only person I’ve seen saying that the only way you get an AI that can truly replace workers is by birthing a new intelligence and then it is wrong to enslave it. I didn’t know there were others!
tumblr in this case.
some people have decided to discredit all ai art as “not real art”, implying that “art” is a quality that is bestowed upon a thing by its creator.
this is bullshit to me because i believe that anything can be art to someone and that decrying ai art as bad because it’s somehow not real art is a thought terminating cliche that distracts from the reality that image generators are made through the exploitation of milions of unpaid artist’s work.
Okay but you can acknowledge the exploitation whilst also admitting that AI doesn’t make art and what it does make is universally bad. The fact it’s using exploited labour and is being used to threaten jobs makes the fact its output sucks even more of a slap in the face. These ideas are not in tension; two things can be true.
Art means something. Art is any creation that meaningfully expresses the intent of its creator. If you want to make art, you need to understand meaning, and current “AI” is devoid of meaning or understanding. It’s not about some nebulous “spark”, it’s that there is no intention behind an LLM’s output. It is a stochastic parrot.
Maybe a person can use AI generated imagery to make something with artistic merit, but that’s because their time and attention was put into curating it, not because an AI drew a picture that seems plausible if you don’t look at it too closely.
An AI needs to have comprehension before it can intend anything. Art isn’t “art” just because it makes pretty pictures.
If you want to say AI as it currently exists can make art, then I’d be fascinated to hear what you think art is, and how your definition differs from mine.
the thing is i don’t think a meaningful definition of art can exist. any attempt would necessarily leave something out. you can look at a crack in a random wall on your way to the shop and think it’s art.
is all art necessarily good? No, obviously not, but if looking at a wonky ai landscape (or let’s be honest with ourselves, massive honking ai tits) means something to you than that’s art to you.
Things can be beautiful or interesting without being art. The crack in the wall, a naturally occurring landscape are examples of that. You could call them “art” but I think you’d be wrong. That’s not a generally accepted meaning of the word.
Actually I’d refine my definition to say that art should be primarily for the purposes of expression and not for any other functional use.
Would you say that the building made that art? Even that analogy is imperfect, because the building didn’t have to have the work of thousands of other buildings poured into it to create the crack, it just happened.
i said that it could be art to the observer art can’t exist in a vacuum it needs someone to experience it.
the ethics of how an artpiece is made are ultimately irrelevant to whether or not it counts as real™ art but very relevant to whether or not we should keep letting it be made the same way.
They are unique abilities of people; whether a neural net can be a person would depend on whether it possesses those abilities. Humans are just the only examples of people that we currently have.
Understanding is not something current neural nets have. They are stochastic parrots.
EDIT: Perhaps I should’ve said “Humans are the only uncontroversial examples of people that we currently have,” but I guess I put too much faith into people to not get sidetracked by irrelevant technicalities. Animals could be considered people by this definition, that’s true and says a lot about our anthropocentric society, but that doesn’t change the fact that LLMs are not people.
I do not accept that humans are the only examples of creativity and understanding, in fact I think you find those traits all over the animal kingdom. From great apes making tools, to fish and birds spending hours building beautiful creations to attract a mate
Even accepting that you’re right you’ve missed the point. To the extent that animals are able to have creativity and understanding, perhaps we should understand them to be “people”.
And at any rate, we still don’t see this kind of thing from LLMs.
I think in a lot of ways this already happens. A lot of port parents understand their pets as people. I certainly see my cat as a person. She has her own personality that is probably fairly unique to her
Yeah, I absolutely agree, and I really did consider saying that humans are the only *uncontroversial examples of people that we have, but I decided not to bog my comment down with too many unnecessary disclaimers. I guess I gave people too much credit there.
Well if it helps I agree that you can’t actually say humans are the only people, I was simplifying to focus on the point. Maybe that was actually a mistake.
No they aren’t. Animals understand LMAO. If you want to continue this conversation, you’re going to need to back up your claims with something, otherwise I’m just going to ignore any further replies.
Where on the internet is the anti-AI crowd at large talking about divine sparks of creativity? I am the only person I’ve seen saying that the only way you get an AI that can truly replace workers is by birthing a new intelligence and then it is wrong to enslave it. I didn’t know there were others!
tumblr in this case.
some people have decided to discredit all ai art as “not real art”, implying that “art” is a quality that is bestowed upon a thing by its creator.
this is bullshit to me because i believe that anything can be art to someone and that decrying ai art as bad because it’s somehow not real art is a thought terminating cliche that distracts from the reality that image generators are made through the exploitation of milions of unpaid artist’s work.
Okay but you can acknowledge the exploitation whilst also admitting that AI doesn’t make art and what it does make is universally bad. The fact it’s using exploited labour and is being used to threaten jobs makes the fact its output sucks even more of a slap in the face. These ideas are not in tension; two things can be true.
Art means something. Art is any creation that meaningfully expresses the intent of its creator. If you want to make art, you need to understand meaning, and current “AI” is devoid of meaning or understanding. It’s not about some nebulous “spark”, it’s that there is no intention behind an LLM’s output. It is a stochastic parrot.
Maybe a person can use AI generated imagery to make something with artistic merit, but that’s because their time and attention was put into curating it, not because an AI drew a picture that seems plausible if you don’t look at it too closely.
An AI needs to have comprehension before it can intend anything. Art isn’t “art” just because it makes pretty pictures.
If you want to say AI as it currently exists can make art, then I’d be fascinated to hear what you think art is, and how your definition differs from mine.
the thing is i don’t think a meaningful definition of art can exist. any attempt would necessarily leave something out. you can look at a crack in a random wall on your way to the shop and think it’s art.
is all art necessarily good? No, obviously not, but if looking at a wonky ai landscape (or let’s be honest with ourselves, massive honking ai tits) means something to you than that’s art to you.
Things can be beautiful or interesting without being art. The crack in the wall, a naturally occurring landscape are examples of that. You could call them “art” but I think you’d be wrong. That’s not a generally accepted meaning of the word.
Actually I’d refine my definition to say that art should be primarily for the purposes of expression and not for any other functional use.
Would you say that the building made that art? Even that analogy is imperfect, because the building didn’t have to have the work of thousands of other buildings poured into it to create the crack, it just happened.
i said that it could be art to the observer art can’t exist in a vacuum it needs someone to experience it.
the ethics of how an artpiece is made are ultimately irrelevant to whether or not it counts as real™ art but very relevant to whether or not we should keep letting it be made the same way.
I think you should read this article.
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I’ve seen multiple people on here arguing that understanding and creativity are uniquely human abilities.
They are unique abilities of people; whether a neural net can be a person would depend on whether it possesses those abilities. Humans are just the only examples of people that we currently have.
Understanding is not something current neural nets have. They are stochastic parrots.
EDIT: Perhaps I should’ve said “Humans are the only uncontroversial examples of people that we currently have,” but I guess I put too much faith into people to not get sidetracked by irrelevant technicalities. Animals could be considered people by this definition, that’s true and says a lot about our anthropocentric society, but that doesn’t change the fact that LLMs are not people.
I do not accept that humans are the only examples of creativity and understanding, in fact I think you find those traits all over the animal kingdom. From great apes making tools, to fish and birds spending hours building beautiful creations to attract a mate
Even accepting that you’re right you’ve missed the point. To the extent that animals are able to have creativity and understanding, perhaps we should understand them to be “people”.
And at any rate, we still don’t see this kind of thing from LLMs.
I think in a lot of ways this already happens. A lot of port parents understand their pets as people. I certainly see my cat as a person. She has her own personality that is probably fairly unique to her
Yeah, I absolutely agree, and I really did consider saying that humans are the only *uncontroversial examples of people that we have, but I decided not to bog my comment down with too many unnecessary disclaimers. I guess I gave people too much credit there.
I missed the point on purpose, because I mostly agree with you :)
Well if it helps I agree that you can’t actually say humans are the only people, I was simplifying to focus on the point. Maybe that was actually a mistake.
No they aren’t. Animals understand LMAO. If you want to continue this conversation, you’re going to need to back up your claims with something, otherwise I’m just going to ignore any further replies.
Okay, so animals can be people too according to my argument. I’m happy to accept that, but the point stands that LLMs don’t exhibit this behaviour.