I agree with it as a concept. If you and 3 buddies go to rob a bank armed and someone dies as a result of that you’re just as responsible as the one that pulled the trigger
But like all laws in America it is then interpreted in the most insane ways possible and then used more frequently against minorities.
the concept is okay, even good, I would say. if somebody does as a direct consequence of your actions, well, you murdered them — but that requires some nuance and work to determine how “direct”.
but the implementation, oh boy, that’s classic police state america
difference being (as I understand it) that manslaughter is negligence outside of criminal actions, and felony murder is manslaughter while committing a crime
USian here and I remember knowing about this for most of my life, but I never looked into its origins. I still haven’t, and right now I don’t care to.
But holy shit does it feel like racism must have played a role.
edit to add: I ALSO remember on and after the Jan 6 insurriot how it seemed like hundreds of those people should be going down for felony murder. Funny how that didn’t happen.
You and your friends are running a marijuana grow op. The police break down the door. One of them sees your friend reaching for something (their phone) and shoots them dead. That person died in the commission of a felony (marijuana growing) that you were part of. You can now face life imprisonment for felony murder. In some states, this can actually happen.
Yes, you will be the one charged. Someone died while you were committing a felony (growing marijuana.) The police can literally shoot your friend and then charge you with felony murder for their death.
IIRC there’s some situations where you’re considered responsible if anybody dies. So if you break into a house to steal something and the homeowner hears you, runs down the stairs, trips and breaks their neck it counts as if you murdered them.
It gets worse. One guy went to prison for felony murder because the police shot and killed his fellow burglar. Another got a life sentence without parole for lending his car keys to his roommate, who then used the car to commit a burglary where someone was killed. John Oliver did a segment on this not too long ago.
Well, no, because murder isn’t just killing someone. It’s the motives and circumstances around the death. That’s why murder, manslaughter, reckless endangerment causing death, etc are all separate crimes.
This is not a compelling argument. Each of the types of charges you can recieve for killing a person is defined by the law. The federal government and the majority of state governments have passed laws defining what constitutes felony murder. Juat like they codified laws defining manslaughter and first degree murder.
Yes, and the disconnect between what they wrote into law and what people consider to be real is why people are asking if it was felony murder or real murder. Because there’s a reason why we made all those different charges, and writing down that littering is now felony murder doesn’t make it real.
writing down that littering is now felony murder doesn’t make it real.
Well if we’re just saying nonsense I don’t see why it can’t make it real. Especially considering it is real, codified into law, and often used. That sounds very real
Isn’t that textbook definition of (negligent) manslaughter in civilised countries? You did something that resulted in the death of someone, but it was not your intention to do so and it you could not reasonably assume that your actions would kill someone?
isn’t the difference here supposed to be the level of danger/lethality/intent?
like if you burn someone’s house down with them inside, vs quietly breaking in to steal shit. if you burn down a house that probably has people in it, that’s murder even if it wasn’t 100% intentional, you should have known that was a likely outcome
Was it felony murder or real murder tho?
I just learned about that bullshit and what the fuck, you US citizens really got a lot of bullshit ways to raise your numbers of legal slaves.
I agree with it as a concept. If you and 3 buddies go to rob a bank armed and someone dies as a result of that you’re just as responsible as the one that pulled the trigger
But like all laws in America it is then interpreted in the most insane ways possible and then used more frequently against minorities.
The land of the free, also also the largest prison population in the world.
the concept is okay, even good, I would say. if somebody does as a direct consequence of your actions, well, you murdered them — but that requires some nuance and work to determine how “direct”.
but the implementation, oh boy, that’s classic police state america
Thats called manslaughter
nah that’s separate, more like negligence
difference being (as I understand it) that manslaughter is negligence outside of criminal actions, and felony murder is manslaughter while committing a crime
Distinction without a difference
I assume you also watched last week’s Last Week Tonight?
And yeah, we get fucked by the system 8 ways to Sunday.
Yep. And I was absolutely unsurprised about the racism as well. Because of course black people get screwed over the most.
USian here and I remember knowing about this for most of my life, but I never looked into its origins. I still haven’t, and right now I don’t care to.
But holy shit does it feel like racism must have played a role.
edit to add: I ALSO remember on and after the Jan 6 insurriot how it seemed like hundreds of those people should be going down for felony murder. Funny how that didn’t happen.
Explain please?
You and your friends are running a marijuana grow op. The police break down the door. One of them sees your friend reaching for something (their phone) and shoots them dead. That person died in the commission of a felony (marijuana growing) that you were part of. You can now face life imprisonment for felony murder. In some states, this can actually happen.
So, me? Not the officer (assuming he wasn’t reaching for a gun)?
Yes, you will be the one charged. Someone died while you were committing a felony (growing marijuana.) The police can literally shoot your friend and then charge you with felony murder for their death.
IIRC there’s some situations where you’re considered responsible if anybody dies. So if you break into a house to steal something and the homeowner hears you, runs down the stairs, trips and breaks their neck it counts as if you murdered them.
It gets worse. One guy went to prison for felony murder because the police shot and killed his fellow burglar. Another got a life sentence without parole for lending his car keys to his roommate, who then used the car to commit a burglary where someone was killed. John Oliver did a segment on this not too long ago.
And this is why you never never never snitch.
It’s like firing a cannon into a crowded building. Maybe it hits the person you’re aiming at, but how much collateral damage will you do?
What. The. Fuck. I’m literally speechless.
That sounds reasonable to me. They took a criminal action that resulted in a death. It was their commission of the crime that killed that person.
Well, no, because murder isn’t just killing someone. It’s the motives and circumstances around the death. That’s why murder, manslaughter, reckless endangerment causing death, etc are all separate crimes.
This is not a compelling argument. Each of the types of charges you can recieve for killing a person is defined by the law. The federal government and the majority of state governments have passed laws defining what constitutes felony murder. Juat like they codified laws defining manslaughter and first degree murder.
Yes, and the disconnect between what they wrote into law and what people consider to be real is why people are asking if it was felony murder or real murder. Because there’s a reason why we made all those different charges, and writing down that littering is now felony murder doesn’t make it real.
Well if we’re just saying nonsense I don’t see why it can’t make it real. Especially considering it is real, codified into law, and often used. That sounds very real
Which definitely shouldn’t be murder, but manslaughter makes sense. Your unethical actions non-deliberately caused someone’s death
Isn’t that textbook definition of (negligent) manslaughter in civilised countries? You did something that resulted in the death of someone, but it was not your intention to do so and it you could not reasonably assume that your actions would kill someone?
isn’t the difference here supposed to be the level of danger/lethality/intent?
like if you burn someone’s house down with them inside, vs quietly breaking in to steal shit. if you burn down a house that probably has people in it, that’s murder even if it wasn’t 100% intentional, you should have known that was a likely outcome
Yeah, that kind of manslaughter shouldn’t get you grounded on Tinder! Especially if it is only a small rubbery.
The most recent episode of Last Week Tonight talks about it https://youtu.be/Y93ljB7sfco
fellatio murder!?