Sex should always be 100% consensual. If someone says ‘no’, then you must stop. If you don’t then that’s rape as far as I’m concerend. But would you acknowledge there’s nuance in playful protest?
Also, there’s also a growing (and understandable) feeling that consent can’t be given under the influence of alcohol. However, where i come from our population would probably be half it’s size if that were always true.
Also, if you have sex drunk and regret it later, there’s an argument that the person you had sex with has taken advantage. That’s a tricky one to navigate.
Bill Burr can be very funny, but in the end he’s right there just reciting the mantra of every man who heard “no” and thought “she just needs more persuasion”.
Is he right that this sometimes happens? Undoubtedly. Sexual dynamics are EXTREMELY complicated. Is this the norm? Certainly not in my experience. A lot of the times people use the style he’s mocking there TO DISARM A SITUATION where SOMEONE WHO CAN HURT THEM BADLY WITH EASE might get VERY FUCKING ANGRY because you said “no”.
I sometimes think “man or bear?” was the wrong idea. It should be “man and bear”. Locked into a room. So that men can learn what it’s like to be physically weaker in the presence of something stronger than them and very aggressive to boot.
I hear you, but worth mentioning that most men have been in the presence of something stronger and aggressive, in the form of other men. From abusive father’s, older siblings, to the general school environment. Violence and the threat of violence is something men feel growing up and it doesn’t really go away.
I’m not saying that threat isn’t more acute for women, or minimizing that lived experience - when a man is trying to force himself onto you it must be terrifying and I know from my sisters and wife that it happens a lot, and often in more subtle and low-key ways than outright aggression (although that’s often the underlying threat).
But yeah… as someone who’s been beaten up a few times just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wearing the wrong t-shirt, I’m under no illusion as to how dangerous men can be.
Hi yeah thanks for saying hi! Yes absolutely agree male violence against men matters. We are a women’s only community so please don’t comment again thanks for understanding 🥰
If both people are drunk it’s inadvisable but not immoral imo. If only the other person is drunk, you’d definitely be taking advantage of them and I don’t think that’s right.
Yeah, hard agree on that. Many, many people have made poor decisions when inebriated. They’ve got over it and moved on. But when one person is sober it definitely feels like an abuse of power.
Haven’t watched the video, but regarding the playful protest point
Discuss it beforehand. Talk about expectations or wants, say that you enjoy playful protest and want it to happen, and, most critically of all, set up a safe word. Have a word like “red” or “banana” or whatever else you want, that both of you agree upon, that, when uttered, everything stops.
Oh, for sure. Once you’re in a relationship then there’s a whole world to explore, as consent is established. But the video (comedically/crudely depending on your own sense of humour) alludes to very early flirtation and the games people play, where a grey area arises as one party wants the other to believe that they are somehow reluctant to proceed (although they’re not), to somehow present the idea that they’re not usually promiscuous, perhaps to massage the ego of the instigator. The concept of ‘sweet surrender’ is explored in countless romantic works and is definitely a thing - and not something that should be conflated with rape, is I guess what i’m trying to put across.
https://youtu.be/6k0ZMPGFh9w
Thoughts on this?
Sex should always be 100% consensual. If someone says ‘no’, then you must stop. If you don’t then that’s rape as far as I’m concerend. But would you acknowledge there’s nuance in playful protest?
Also, there’s also a growing (and understandable) feeling that consent can’t be given under the influence of alcohol. However, where i come from our population would probably be half it’s size if that were always true.
Also, if you have sex drunk and regret it later, there’s an argument that the person you had sex with has taken advantage. That’s a tricky one to navigate.
Bill Burr can be very funny, but in the end he’s right there just reciting the mantra of every man who heard “no” and thought “she just needs more persuasion”.
Is he right that this sometimes happens? Undoubtedly. Sexual dynamics are EXTREMELY complicated. Is this the norm? Certainly not in my experience. A lot of the times people use the style he’s mocking there TO DISARM A SITUATION where SOMEONE WHO CAN HURT THEM BADLY WITH EASE might get VERY FUCKING ANGRY because you said “no”.
I sometimes think “man or bear?” was the wrong idea. It should be “man and bear”. Locked into a room. So that men can learn what it’s like to be physically weaker in the presence of something stronger than them and very aggressive to boot.
I hear you, but worth mentioning that most men have been in the presence of something stronger and aggressive, in the form of other men. From abusive father’s, older siblings, to the general school environment. Violence and the threat of violence is something men feel growing up and it doesn’t really go away.
I’m not saying that threat isn’t more acute for women, or minimizing that lived experience - when a man is trying to force himself onto you it must be terrifying and I know from my sisters and wife that it happens a lot, and often in more subtle and low-key ways than outright aggression (although that’s often the underlying threat).
But yeah… as someone who’s been beaten up a few times just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wearing the wrong t-shirt, I’m under no illusion as to how dangerous men can be.
Hi yeah thanks for saying hi! Yes absolutely agree male violence against men matters. We are a women’s only community so please don’t comment again thanks for understanding 🥰
My apologies, I hadn’t appreciated that - all the best
You too mate
That’s not just as far as you’re concerned. That’s the DEFINITION.
If both people are drunk it’s inadvisable but not immoral imo. If only the other person is drunk, you’d definitely be taking advantage of them and I don’t think that’s right.
Yeah, hard agree on that. Many, many people have made poor decisions when inebriated. They’ve got over it and moved on. But when one person is sober it definitely feels like an abuse of power.
Haven’t watched the video, but regarding the playful protest point
Discuss it beforehand. Talk about expectations or wants, say that you enjoy playful protest and want it to happen, and, most critically of all, set up a safe word. Have a word like “red” or “banana” or whatever else you want, that both of you agree upon, that, when uttered, everything stops.
Oh, for sure. Once you’re in a relationship then there’s a whole world to explore, as consent is established. But the video (comedically/crudely depending on your own sense of humour) alludes to very early flirtation and the games people play, where a grey area arises as one party wants the other to believe that they are somehow reluctant to proceed (although they’re not), to somehow present the idea that they’re not usually promiscuous, perhaps to massage the ego of the instigator. The concept of ‘sweet surrender’ is explored in countless romantic works and is definitely a thing - and not something that should be conflated with rape, is I guess what i’m trying to put across.