This is very ironic, but not at all funny. While the irony may be satisfying, it isn’t going to improve things appreciably and reveling in it is not a healthy thing to do.
If you laugh at someone getting shot because they supported gun violence, then you have just lowered yourself to their level and now everyone is just back to tribal violence.
This isn’t even potentially as beneficial as the killing of someone like Brian Thompson, because you can at least make the argument that it might make CEOs think twice before systematically exploiting people for profit. As ironic as it may be, this is not going to move the needle in a positive direction or change anyone’s mind for the better.
It’s the same as with the CEO. Sure, if we could otherwise force these fucks to stop persecuting people and generally making everything worse for the entire world, I’d prefer that. But I still feel nothing but joy at anyone whos a “close trump ally” dying.
Because “close trump ally” reads the same to me as “close hitler ally”.
You cannot persuade fascists not to be fascists, the only language they know is this. As much as it saddens me that this is the way it has to be, the same logic applies to Kirk as to the CEO, it might make fascists think twice before systematically dismantling democracy and promoting hatred against minorities.
The same logic does not apply because their motivations are different. The CEO is motivated by greed and the facist is motivated by hate.
If you are motivated by greed and selfishness in spite of the suffering of others, and you see there is a risk of losing everything because you were too exploitive, then it is in your own selfish interest to avoid that outcome.
If you are motivated by hate, then seeing someone with your ideology get shot is going to make you even more hateful and even give you the confidence that you were right all along and your hate is justified.
shut up oh my god with this lib shit. don’t clutch them pearls so hard.
no, laughing at a horrible person dying the way he wanted others to die every day is not lowering yourself to his level where he laughed at minorities and political opponents being shot and advocated for more of it.
and you’re wrong, the circumstances make it objectively funny. this is how you’d kill someone in a movie like Airplane, without the graphic imagery. people laughing at this aren’t necessarily saying it’s good that this kind of thing happens, or it should happen more; charlie kirk did. his last word was “violence”. maybe he shouldn’t have been advocating for gun violence with a massive head and neck that are hard to miss.
in this case, way up. he was an advisor to the president. had massive role in his election, and has been advocating for death, destruction and genocide. there aren’t too many more instances where you can punch higher up than this.
Not sure: up implies power, usually political or economic class.
He was an influential, right-wing activist promoting objectionable views.
More like a cheerleader than commander.
The only power he seemed to exercise was the power of any activist (to express their views) who lacks political office.
If we swap their political views, would any funny there be punching up?
he’d had foster friess’ backing since he was 18-19. also was mentored by bill montgomery. Toilet Paper USA didn’t just come from nowhere. he was handpicked. saying he had any activist’s power is like saying musk donating to a campaign is just like anyone’s contribution. now musk being the rizzless fucking idiot still managed to fuck it up but that doesn’t mean he’s on equal grounds as anyone.
I will not laugh though, because I look at myself and I see the same potential for evil in myself. I can see how I could become a Hitler or a Pol Pot and orchestrate horrific things while convincing myself I am right. Laughing at the death of a man who espoused violence and shunned empathy isn’t going to complete that transformation, but it is a step in that direction.
P.S.
I originally posted a meme, but I thought it was too glib for this conversation.
I’m not advocating tolerance. The key difference is laughing at someone’s death isn’t just an expression of disapproval, it is a devaluation of human life in general. It isn’t a question of being justified in laughing at their demise because they laughed at horrible things; the very act of laughing degrades yourself.
Let me put it another way: Epstein and his accomplices deserved to be gang raped by all of us in prison. Should we run a train on them? No! Because that defiles us as much as it does them.
the reason people are celebrating (even though we dont even know the shooter’s reason) is because they feel like they have no other course of action other than violence. The right has been fine with violence for a while (see jan 6, the senator that was assinated, kyle rittenhouse, etc…) and now the left is getting more comfortable with it. This will not end well for anyone. I dont agree with the man, he said some vile shit and demonized the “other” to gain political power but anyone celebrating this fails so see the devastation resorting to violence will cause. Some people on the right are already calling for revenge killing. Were at a point of no return and anyone who sees this as a good thing is a fucking idiot.
Some people on the right are already calling for revenge killing.
I think a lot of us have known this is what it would come to. In 2016 in Trump’s first presidential run, even before the election took place, the writing was already on the wall - this will not end peacefully.
The cult was fully developed by then. They were already fueled by anger and revenge. Then Covid threw in a curveball, but I guess things are back on track now. The fascist tools were always going to call for violence against “the left” (I’d even argue that they’d been calling for violence all along, just less overtly.) There’s nothing we could have done to stop that - fascists gonna fasc.
I don’t know about you, but to me it just feels like the other shoe is finally dropping. It merely took 9 years to get here.
This is very ironic, but not at all funny. While the irony may be satisfying, it isn’t going to improve things appreciably and reveling in it is not a healthy thing to do.
If you laugh at someone getting shot because they supported gun violence, then you have just lowered yourself to their level and now everyone is just back to tribal violence.
This isn’t even potentially as beneficial as the killing of someone like Brian Thompson, because you can at least make the argument that it might make CEOs think twice before systematically exploiting people for profit. As ironic as it may be, this is not going to move the needle in a positive direction or change anyone’s mind for the better.
It’s the same as with the CEO. Sure, if we could otherwise force these fucks to stop persecuting people and generally making everything worse for the entire world, I’d prefer that. But I still feel nothing but joy at anyone whos a “close trump ally” dying.
Because “close trump ally” reads the same to me as “close hitler ally”.
You have to have a storm if you want flowers.
Will this coming storm be [a] death-struggle or the birth-pangs of a new and better age?
Shit I guess we’re about to find out
You cannot persuade fascists not to be fascists, the only language they know is this. As much as it saddens me that this is the way it has to be, the same logic applies to Kirk as to the CEO, it might make fascists think twice before systematically dismantling democracy and promoting hatred against minorities.
The same logic does not apply because their motivations are different. The CEO is motivated by greed and the facist is motivated by hate.
If you are motivated by greed and selfishness in spite of the suffering of others, and you see there is a risk of losing everything because you were too exploitive, then it is in your own selfish interest to avoid that outcome.
If you are motivated by hate, then seeing someone with your ideology get shot is going to make you even more hateful and even give you the confidence that you were right all along and your hate is justified.
I’m pretty sure Kirk was also motivated by greed. Fuck’em.
shut up oh my god with this lib shit. don’t clutch them pearls so hard.
no, laughing at a horrible person dying the way he wanted others to die every day is not lowering yourself to his level where he laughed at minorities and political opponents being shot and advocated for more of it.
and you’re wrong, the circumstances make it objectively funny. this is how you’d kill someone in a movie like Airplane, without the graphic imagery. people laughing at this aren’t necessarily saying it’s good that this kind of thing happens, or it should happen more; charlie kirk did. his last word was “violence”. maybe he shouldn’t have been advocating for gun violence with a massive head and neck that are hard to miss.
Which direction does the funny punch, though? Up, down, sideways?
in this case, way up. he was an advisor to the president. had massive role in his election, and has been advocating for death, destruction and genocide. there aren’t too many more instances where you can punch higher up than this.
Not sure: up implies power, usually political or economic class. He was an influential, right-wing activist promoting objectionable views. More like a cheerleader than commander.
The only power he seemed to exercise was the power of any activist (to express their views) who lacks political office.
If we swap their political views, would any funny there be punching up?
he’d had foster friess’ backing since he was 18-19. also was mentored by bill montgomery. Toilet Paper USA didn’t just come from nowhere. he was handpicked. saying he had any activist’s power is like saying musk donating to a campaign is just like anyone’s contribution. now musk being the rizzless fucking idiot still managed to fuck it up but that doesn’t mean he’s on equal grounds as anyone.
You do you. I cannot change your mind.
I will not laugh though, because I look at myself and I see the same potential for evil in myself. I can see how I could become a Hitler or a Pol Pot and orchestrate horrific things while convincing myself I am right. Laughing at the death of a man who espoused violence and shunned empathy isn’t going to complete that transformation, but it is a step in that direction.
P.S. I originally posted a meme, but I thought it was too glib for this conversation.
I get your point but it feels like just a spin on the paradox of tolerance.
My enemy in this case is laughing at something they support happening to someone they don’t support.
I am (not really) laughing at something i don’t support that happend to someone who does supports that thing.
The thing here being, far too easy acces to firearms and the inevitable deaths resulting from it.
I also feel like its more a dopamine approval of the general karma of the situation then it is a literal celebration of lost life.
I’m not advocating tolerance. The key difference is laughing at someone’s death isn’t just an expression of disapproval, it is a devaluation of human life in general. It isn’t a question of being justified in laughing at their demise because they laughed at horrible things; the very act of laughing degrades yourself.
Let me put it another way: Epstein and his accomplices deserved to be gang raped by all of us in prison. Should we run a train on them? No! Because that defiles us as much as it does them.
Yeah, they start “Isn’t it utterly heeelarious that…” and proceed to spell out something grim and morbid.
Fuck the fascists for making us feel schadenfreude.
The fear in every hateful right influencer douchebag due to this killing will help me sleep soundly at night.
the reason people are celebrating (even though we dont even know the shooter’s reason) is because they feel like they have no other course of action other than violence. The right has been fine with violence for a while (see jan 6, the senator that was assinated, kyle rittenhouse, etc…) and now the left is getting more comfortable with it. This will not end well for anyone. I dont agree with the man, he said some vile shit and demonized the “other” to gain political power but anyone celebrating this fails so see the devastation resorting to violence will cause. Some people on the right are already calling for revenge killing. Were at a point of no return and anyone who sees this as a good thing is a fucking idiot.
I think a lot of us have known this is what it would come to. In 2016 in Trump’s first presidential run, even before the election took place, the writing was already on the wall - this will not end peacefully.
The cult was fully developed by then. They were already fueled by anger and revenge. Then Covid threw in a curveball, but I guess things are back on track now. The fascist tools were always going to call for violence against “the left” (I’d even argue that they’d been calling for violence all along, just less overtly.) There’s nothing we could have done to stop that - fascists gonna fasc.
I don’t know about you, but to me it just feels like the other shoe is finally dropping. It merely took 9 years to get here.