The EU is planning to strike a deal with the US that would let the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies search European databases to identify people posing “a threat to US security,” according to a proposal published by the European Commission at the end of July.

  • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    39
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    4 days ago

    The article seems misleading. The proposal linked by article itself is part of a visa-free program, and the exchange would focus on travelers to the US, applicants for immigration/humanitarian benefits in the US, individuals encountered by DHS law enforcement in a border and immigration context in the US. It’s far from that “Millions of innocent Europeans in police databases” mentioned in the article.

    • bigFab@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      4 days ago

      So you believe in the sincerity of US intelligence agencies, that even if they have access to everybody’s police record they’re gonna limit the surveiling to the ones with a plane ticket already bought? History tells a very different story.

      • Vincent@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        4 days ago

        Does the linked proposal say that the US intelligence agencies get access to everybody’s record, or just to the ones with a plane ticket?

        • Wrufieotnak@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          3 days ago

          The US police could easily falsify a ticket or just say, I want to immigrate from a neighbouring country if I travel to Mexico for example. But more likely, they get full access and then when it gets out, that they copied it fully, everybody involved will try and make their best Pikachu face.

        • bigFab@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 days ago

          I think it’s pretty obvious. There is no such thing as a database of people with a US plane ticket and the article refers to direct access rather than request to access policy. Direct access then technically includes the whole database, even if the surveiling pretext is certain kind of US travelers.

    • Alfredolin@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      4 days ago

      How is it misleading? That’s what I read in the article. And that’s probably actually “Millions of innocent Europeans in police databases”. These are not exclusive affirmations?

      A quick search tells me just about 2 million Germans visited USA in 2024. Which is actually much more than I expected.

      • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        4 days ago

        How is it misleading?

        The tone of the article seems to suggest a massive and unprecedented sharing of data, but in reality it’s going to concern only travellers to the US in a process alternative to requesting a visa that already requires sharing data. Moreover, traveling to the US is a choice.

        If the US require that data, Europe can choose to say no, but then the US can choose to close the borders. That may be what you want, but million people would probably disagree with you.

        • Alfredolin@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 days ago

          Most EU countries already participate in the Visa Waiver Program. This agreement is about extending it to 3 more countries in the union and …

          Where the objective of an exchange of information under a PCSC agreement is to fight terrorism and serious crime, the purpose of the exchange of information under the EBSP is potentially broader as it also concerns the areas of border management and visa policy.

          … extend the content of exchanged data. So, yes, the article is right?

          • JumpyWombat@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            4 days ago

            yes, the article is right?

            I never said it wasn’t, just misleading. I’d say clickbaiting too.

            One thing is to say that the US will have access to more data about EU travellers to the US, another is to say that the US will have direct access to EU databases.

            • Alfredolin@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              4 days ago

              That’s true. The title might lead to think of a generalised access. The data exchange is not defined yet, and that is the work to be done as stated in the paper you linked. Annex, point 3:

              In particular, the framework agreement should provide clear and precise rules and procedures for triggering a query on a traveller, to preclude a systematic, generalised and non-targeted processing of data for all travellers.

              • Wrufieotnak@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                Yeah, never heard that one before a country wide surveillance database was generated.

                When the government, especially the USA, and surveillance is concerned,I expect worst results instead of good faith.