Frakes has dealt directly with Trek fandom for nearly 40 years straight. If there’s one thing that shouldn’t surprise him, it’s every damn thing being “controversial” to a chunk of it.
I mean, among holodeck episodes it doesn’t actually rank badly
Are we counting S1 “The Elysian Kingdom”? I know it’s not technically a holodeck episode, but…
I think the only controversy is that this series spends too big a chunk on “silly” episodes like this. Puppets. Singing/dancing. Holodeck spoofs.
This would be fine if it were a 23 episode season. It’s 10.
Because it’s impossible to get the execs to approve a 23-episode season of almost anything these days, let alone sci-fi, but one of the (many) criticisms of Discovery was that it was lacking the more offbeat episodes and character pieces that helped define Trek’s golden age.
Rock and a hard place.
Costs are a big factor. Shit costs a lot of money to make nowadays. They used to use cheap cardboard and foam, models for shops flying through space, etc. now it all takes time and money to make us all go WOW!
for me, the foam rocks and rubber foreheads were part of the fun, like watching a magic show where you know where to look. i would be thrilled if all of SNW looked like the TOS parody from this episode, especially if it brought back 24-episode seasons. probably not a common sentiment though lol
I mean, I agree.
Yeah, that is sad. I enjoy seeing futuristic aliens and ships too, but I guess I’ve never really understood why a lot of these shows have to look like movies now. I would be perfectly happy to see them cut those fancy effects way back and spend some of that money on some good writers to make a few more episodes. I’ve found I very rarely remember how good the CGI monster or alien building looked, but I often remember what the characters said.
No, I’m not as old as I sound! ;-)
Not judt costs but the production schedule for the actors and crew. 23 episodes is one every 2 weeks with just a couple weeks off for the entire year. This also lead to a lot of garbage filler episodes regardless of the series. I do prefer more that 8-10 episodes but 20+ is a bit much too.
I think you’re not remembering the amount of silliness on previous shows, let’s analyze TNG S2:
Serious Episodes 59% (13 episodes)
- “Where Silence Has Lease”
- “Loud as a Whisper”
- “The Schizoid Man”
- “Unnatural Selection”
- “A Matter of Honor”
- “The Measure of a Man”
- “Contagion”
- “Time Squared”
- “The Icarus Factor”
- “Pen Pals”
- “Q Who”
- “The Emissary”
- “Peak Performance”
Not Serious Episodes: 41% (9 episodes)
- “The Child” (Troi’s immaculate space-conception)
- “Elementary, Dear Data” (“Holodeck gone wrong” story)
- “The Outrageous Okona” (Data learns comedy)
- “The Dauphin” (Shapeshifting monster princess)
- “The Royale” (Another “holodeck gone wrong” story with no holodeck)
- “Samaritan Snare” (We are smart)
- “Up the Long Ladder” (Space irish)
- “Manhunt” (Lwaxana Troi is on the hunt for a husband)
- “Shades of Gray” (A clip show)
I think it’s a good proportion of silly so far…
e: I made the same analysis for TNG S3, and I could only identify 3 silly episodes, so, I don’t know. Take this with a grain of salt. Maybe SNW S4 is all business.
I don’t think it’s fair to call all those “not serious” just because they had some cheesy aspects, especially when in some cases it was just in the B plot.
yes, I agree that the “not serious” label is probably not that accurate, but they were written to have fun with the material, and I don’t agree that any of them had the cheese in the B-plot. They were adventures, most of them, but also with a silly aspect that sits at the core of Trek.
I mean, I wish TNG was a little less silly too.
I haven’t seen the most recent episode yet, but so far the best episodes this season have been the silly episodes.
Strange New Worlds season 3 spoilers
- Episode 1, the second part of two parter. Neat trick to make the Gorn sleep but otherwise boring.
- Episode 2, a fun Trelane/Q wedding episode. (Silly)
- Episode 3, zombies I think.
- Episode 4, hologram episode, the best parts of which were the over the top parts. (Half silly)
- Episode 5, the best serious episode exploring the ruins and solving puzzles.
Just a heads up, it says "season 2” in the spoiler tag, then discusses episodes from season 3.
Lol, you’re right, season 3, fixed
Wait. I missed a muppet Star Trek episode?! Where?!
No, not yet. It was announced, I think for season 4.
God, does it have puppets?? I hope whoever is tainting all of the live action shows with puppets goes away soon.
What other live action shows have been “tainted” by puppets recently?
For me nothing recent comes to mind.
Now older shows like Far Scape? I love that show, muppets and all.
I don’t know about recent, but Community and My Name is Earl are two examples that come immediately to mind. God I hate those episodes.
How about the Scrubs one with Sesame Street? That was good
You said “all of the live action shows” and then proceed to cite two that are a decade old, and one that’s complete shit anyhow. Followed by an admission that you “don’t keep up with live tv”.
How high are you, exactly? 🤦🏼♂️
edit: TBF, I totally get the “post to spark interaction to fill the widening, lonely void in one’s soul”, and am not one to judge. Could you do so with a little more kindness involved, though? The hyperbolic whinge isn’t winning you any friends, and it’s counterproductive in that way, neighbor.
I’m not here to make friends, I’m here to discourage puppet episodes of otherwise live action series. They are bad. The people who make them should feel bad. Hell even Stargate SG-1 had a weird puppet episode.
I’m sorry that I used the phrase “all” and it didn’t actually mean every single show in existence. I should have known that the pedantry of the internet wouldn’t allow the usage of an absolute.
I’m not here to make friends
Oh, phew. This’ll be a short conversation then. Good.
Unrelated question: how far down your own shaft are you, anyway? Like fully molars-meet-balls level and now questioning everything, or are you still that plucky teary-eyed-but-hopeful noob?
It’s challenging to get a read, I’ll admit, but I think smart money’s on the latter. We’re rooting for you, bud. Well, not as much as you are, but you know.
The “Community” episode was over a decade ago…
Don’t be silly. Hah! A decade ago! Community didn’t exist as a TV programme in the 1990s!
I know, it hurts doesn’t it?
Like my knees :(
I don’t keep up on live TV any more. Too many advertisements.
I’m having fun with it.
Just finished the musical episode in Season 2, which was quite silly, but it’s all so fun that it’s hard to criticize. This is a show that knows what it is and revels in it.
I loved the musical episode. It was 100% silly, but I enjoyed it for it!
It’s incredible they managed to top the Lower Decks crossover in silliness. Loved it.
That was the only episode of any Trek series where I had to watch the majority of it on mute.
Wow. Just in case you accidentally enjoyed yourself? Kudos to you, I guess.
No, not really. I just can’t stand musicals. It doesn’t matter how good an episode or movie is otherwise, I just can’t enjoy musicals.
I also didn’t want to completely skip the episode and miss any plot points, so mute with subtitles worked nicely.
I’m picturing you all alone turning the volume down in case someone broke into your home so you could protect yourself from the embarrassment from hypothetical robbers.
I wouldn’t have minded it other than that it led into the lower decks tie-in, which led into the season finale. Kind of derailed the season’s momentum for me
I found it very funny, especially Wesleys portrayal of Kirk. The plot was a bit so and so though.
10 episode seasons?! What is this? A season for lazy productions?
I thought the spoof was charming and funny
If anything, I found it at best too earnest and self-congratulatory. Like, I love Star Trek, but it’s just a TV show! Still enjoyed the episode however.
Assuming you’re referring to the “Uhura” speech, I think what saved it for me was that it had a dual purpose: yes, it was definitely about Star Trek and its place in the world…but it was also about the Amelia Moon novels that inspired La’An as a child.
Giving it a character-focused angle goes a long way in my books.
It made me smile thinking of how amazing it must have felt for Celia to say the lines about the inspiration from a TV show (i.e. “The Last Frontier”… meaning, Star Trek), considering how much of an inspiration Nichelle’s Uhura was for her (Celia) and her career.
The biggest biggest technology change has been the AR wall… You can’t use the camera the same way, but when you see the see the opportunity, it literally captures what the a camera is watching.
When you do it right, you get “how did they do that on a TV budget!?” When you do it wrong, you get whatever the hell THIS was.
