- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65102495
The Israeli government’s actions in Gaza “can no longer be justified,” said German Chancellor Friedrich Merz on Monday, signalling a profound shift in tone from one of Europe’s traditionally most staunch supporters of Israel.
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They stopped being justified when they started bombing vital civil infrastructure. So basically an initial response and targeted bombing of Hamas would have been justified, but not indiscriminate bombing.
Exactly! As soon as they started bombing everything and using safe zones to group up civilians to bomb them easier, I was done listening to anyone suggesting they were jUsT dEfEnDiNg ThEmSeLvEs. You don’t bomb civilians and children and you don’t bomb the places you’ve outlined as refugee safe zones, medical units, or journalists. Bunch of fucking monsters.
Took you a while…
Meh, let’s see some action. Merz likes to talk a lot.
True. Tho this is not the kind of thing somebody would back out of. Not without some serious repercussion anyway.
They were always unjustifiable
Getting the hostages back?
Many Israelis actually marched against the war plans right from the start, because they knew it wasn’t about hostages.
I agree, getting the hostages back is essential to peace. I’m sure that was not the point you were trying to make, however.
Since 1967, between 750,000 and 1 million Palestinians have been arrested by Israel. As of October 2023, Israel held 5,200 Palestinian prisoners, including 170 children
Hamas releases 80 Israeli hostages in exchange for the release of 240 prisoners during the weeklong ceasefire.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Israel also applies systemic rape and torture to the ‘prisoners,’ many are arrested arbitrarily via administrative detention. This includes hundreds of children as well
Israel has also repeatedly stated that returning the hostages are secondary to ‘eliminating Hamas’ aka the full ethnic cleansing of Gaza. On the other hand, Hamas has proposed a full prisoner exchange and peace resolution since Oct 8th, along with agreeing to the UN proposal that passed
applies systemic rape and torture to the ‘prisoners’
Is there a source for that?
Yes
Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki)
Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children)
Stripped, beaten and blindfolded: new research reveals ongoing violence and abuse of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military - (Save The Children)
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem)
Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR)
Shocking testimony: Torture in Israeli prisons, “sexual assaults even using dogs"
Why raping Palestinians is legitimate Israeli military practice
'Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
Extent of systematic torture, atrocities endured by Palestinians in Israeli prisons is shocking
UN Report Details Vast, Systemic Torture of Palestinians in Israeli Detention
“Welcome to Hell” is a report on the abuse and inhuman treatment of Palestinians held in Israeli custody since 7 October 2023. B’Tselem collected testimonies from 55 Palestinians held during that time and released, almost all with no charges. Their testimonies reveal the outcomes of the rushed transformation of more than a dozen Israeli prison facilities, military and civilian, into a network of camps dedicated to the abuse of inmates as a matter of policy. Facilities in which every inmate is deliberately subjected to harsh, relentless pain and suffering operate as de-facto torture camps.
Thanks. So, to me, from the sources you linked, it seems “systemic abuses/torture” is justifiable claim. “Systemic rape” seems like a claim that might be over the line — even as raping prisoners is apparently accepted among certain strata of Israeli society. /f
Who cares? And what part of the Israeli government’s actions tells you they care at all whether their hostages live or die?
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I had written this in a different thread regarding the topic already. I think it is important to understand that these remain hollow words, unless there is actual real actions taken, something the German government continues to oppose.
Yeah, dont believe a word coming out of Merz mouth, unless there is actual actions.
The new coalition plans to treat Israel “like a NATO partner” in arms exports, effectively removing any oversight and any chance to appeal against arms exports used for war crimes.
They also want to make further financial contributions to UNRWA “dependent on extensive reforms”. Furthermore they want to remove funding from any scientific, cultural or education project that is deemed “hostile to Israel”.
In February Merz told Netanyahu he would find a way to have Netanyahu visit Germany without the arrest warrant by the ICC being executed. The only way to do that is to defy the ICC. Just two weeks ago the German president Steinmeier invited the Israeli president Herzog to Germany and subsequently visited Herzog and Netanyahu in Israel too. Aside from shaking hands with a wanted war criminal, Herzog also is known for genocidal statements against Palestinians.
Just last week Germany opposed the EU to reevaluate the association agreement with Israel on the basis that the agreement requires conforming to international law and human rights.
The reason why Merz is saying something now is because Germany is getting more and more isolated. However so far Germany wants to only talk, while giving Israel the weapons, money and diplomatic cover to finish its genocidal onslaught.
Just like Israel will not react to any words and only understand concrete pressure, Germany will not wane from the side of Israel unless forced to do so. German politics across the spectrum from the Greens on the center left to the AfD Fascists embrace support for Israel and try to shift the blame of antisemitism on Muslim (or perceived as such) immigrants, while quietly or loudly enjoying the mass slaughter of brown people.
Also note how he is saying
“Harming the civilian population to such an extent as has increasingly been the case in recent days, can no longer be justified as a fight against Hamas terrorism,”
Meaning all the extent before, including executions of medics, rape of prisoners and all the other atrocities are justified in the eyes of the German government.
He added he planned to hold a call with Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu this week to tell him “to not overdo it,”
So the destruction of almost all civillian infrastructure is acceptable. Displacing people dozens of times is acceptable. Starving people for 20 months is acceptable as long as it is done slowly…
They couldn’t be justified in the fucking first place. Some of us were smart enough to figure that out on day 1. What the fuck do these morons even get paid for?
How incredibly cruel must things be for a German leader to dare criticize Israel? I know it’s a lukewarm criticism and has no real repercussions, but still, I didn’t think I’d ever see something like this
He just wanted Israel to constantly edge the population into being genocided. Never quite reaching a full genocide.
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