Most of Lemmy thinks you should vote against Kamala on principle against genocide and if Trump gets elected and makes the genocide far worse than it would’ve been under Kamala that that is a preferred outcome and somehow they won’t have blood on their hands.
Everyone, including you, has a line, where you will say, “no more, I will not participate in this evil”. Maybe for you its having American kids in the US lined up on a wall and shot if they shoplift, or something. For some people its having the Dem candidate openly support mass murder. The fact that your line doesnt match others is natural and is no reason to denigrate those other people.
Your actions will produce more harm than good if Trump gets elected. What a privileged life you must live to be able to make a stand on principle — even though that will produce a worse outcome for the people you supposedly care about. The additional blood that will be shed is very much on your hands.
You don’t get to just walk away from the situation absolved of guilt because of your so called principles.
Is it me or Harris who made the choice to support a far right wing war that so many dems are having trouble with? Its Harris. She has people on staff that tell her the odds. She is choosing this.
The focus of her ground game is courting republicans-- not progressives, and going to the right on issues to woo them. She’s moving the party right and in doing so she keeps losing ground in the polls. Every day is worse polling for her. But its my fault huh.
a vote isn’t an endorsement. Pretending the US system is some kind of idealic democracy where you are presented a platter of issues to vote on and can do those independently is delusional. We live in a perpetual trolley problem. Not pulling the lever is far more evil here.
Politicians view it as an endorsement. When they get elected they say “the people have spoken” and act like they have a mandate. Bush pressed on with his Iraq war and privatizing social security after getting re elected despite those being unpopular and people voting for him in spite of those policies. Trump claimed the people supported him and hence wouldn’t release his tax records etc.
If Harris wins she won’t feel chastised on Gaza. She said she will continue Biden’s plan even though she was given space to say what she would do differently. Even saying something mild like “Knowing what I know now, I would not have said what Biden said about Palestinians lying about death counts,” and it would have mollified many people.
Again this a delusional view. No democrat has ever been like “oh I lost an election, better adopt more leftwing policies”. Because nonvoting is not clear messaging it will never be effective messaging.
I disagree. The Tea Party tanked the 2010 and 2012 election for republicans but it forced them to go hard right ever since and they got everything they wanted.
Democrats put electability over all else and compromised their principles, which is why they are in a toss up right now against an unpopular Trump with unpopular policies. This should have been an easy win, but Biden avoided meeting any Palestinians whatsoever and Harris sadly kept that up. Even minimal pandering would help and she won’t even do that. It’s not so much that she’s doing nothing for my community but Biden actively would throw insults at it (“I have zero trust for Palestinians”) and Harris won’t even distance herself from those hateful remarks. Just say he was wrong to say that and she’d get a ton of votes, I don’t even think she would lose Zionist votes like she’s afraid of.
Excuse me did you just say the tea party succeeded? The #1 goal of the tea party was to eliminate deficit spending. They have done the opposite. They cut taxes and blew up the deficit.
What an insane example of a strategy to mimic. Their “protest” backfired on them spectacularly. It also doesn’t even account for the fact the tea party was wholly fabricated from like the Koch brothers and Fox News.
The tea party took control of the Republican Party and forced every noncompliant Republican out via the primaries. It handed control of GOP to Koch brothers and no Republican in office today dares to cross Fox News. They succeeded in that goal even if those policies harmed the country (and they don’t care).
That’s not a “successful leftward strategy” When voters get tricked into nonvoting donors gain more power in the parties. Like that happens in both parties. None of the stated goals of the tea party happened but the corporations behind the tea party succeeded. Its 100% the opposite of a successful leftist strategy
the tea aparty didnt seem to be about goals, it was about grievance. Seemed to be the birth of maga. But I admit I wasnt listening to them very closely.
you can still find their stated listed of goals. Trump actually killed the tea party when he passed his deficit bomb tax cuts. Like Paul Ryan basically was the face of the tea party and bailed out once it became obvious he was never serious about it.
The dem equivalent of the Tea Party are “Blue Dog Democrats” “Joe Manchin/Kristen Sinema” “Eric Adams”
If you aren’t willing to vote for somewhat icky democrats you get the first ex-republican corporations can scoop up. Not voting will solidify Dick Cheney and Nikki Haley as the furthest left we’ll get to choose from next election because if Joe Biden is electable and Harris isnt, the obvious conclusion democrats will be sold on is that they need to be somewhere between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
Most of Lemmy thinks you should vote against Kamala on principle against genocide and if Trump gets elected and makes the genocide far worse than it would’ve been under Kamala that that is a preferred outcome and somehow they won’t have blood on their hands.
They think it’s better to make things worse if you personally can avoid blame for it on a technicality.
Everyone, including you, has a line, where you will say, “no more, I will not participate in this evil”. Maybe for you its having American kids in the US lined up on a wall and shot if they shoplift, or something. For some people its having the Dem candidate openly support mass murder. The fact that your line doesnt match others is natural and is no reason to denigrate those other people.
You’ll get to where we are soon enough.
Your actions will produce more harm than good if Trump gets elected. What a privileged life you must live to be able to make a stand on principle — even though that will produce a worse outcome for the people you supposedly care about. The additional blood that will be shed is very much on your hands.
You don’t get to just walk away from the situation absolved of guilt because of your so called principles.
Most of Lemmy is doing mental gymnastics just like this to convince themselves that voting for the person doing genocide makes them anti genocide.
I don’t believe they’re speaking in good faith. I think they just don’t give a shit about human lives when they’re brown and across the world.
a vote isn’t an endorsement. Pretending the US system is some kind of idealic democracy where you are presented a platter of issues to vote on and can do those independently is delusional. We live in a perpetual trolley problem. Not pulling the lever is far more evil here.
The sky is green
Politicians view it as an endorsement. When they get elected they say “the people have spoken” and act like they have a mandate. Bush pressed on with his Iraq war and privatizing social security after getting re elected despite those being unpopular and people voting for him in spite of those policies. Trump claimed the people supported him and hence wouldn’t release his tax records etc.
If Harris wins she won’t feel chastised on Gaza. She said she will continue Biden’s plan even though she was given space to say what she would do differently. Even saying something mild like “Knowing what I know now, I would not have said what Biden said about Palestinians lying about death counts,” and it would have mollified many people.
Again this a delusional view. No democrat has ever been like “oh I lost an election, better adopt more leftwing policies”. Because nonvoting is not clear messaging it will never be effective messaging.
I disagree. The Tea Party tanked the 2010 and 2012 election for republicans but it forced them to go hard right ever since and they got everything they wanted.
Democrats put electability over all else and compromised their principles, which is why they are in a toss up right now against an unpopular Trump with unpopular policies. This should have been an easy win, but Biden avoided meeting any Palestinians whatsoever and Harris sadly kept that up. Even minimal pandering would help and she won’t even do that. It’s not so much that she’s doing nothing for my community but Biden actively would throw insults at it (“I have zero trust for Palestinians”) and Harris won’t even distance herself from those hateful remarks. Just say he was wrong to say that and she’d get a ton of votes, I don’t even think she would lose Zionist votes like she’s afraid of.
Excuse me did you just say the tea party succeeded? The #1 goal of the tea party was to eliminate deficit spending. They have done the opposite. They cut taxes and blew up the deficit.
What an insane example of a strategy to mimic. Their “protest” backfired on them spectacularly. It also doesn’t even account for the fact the tea party was wholly fabricated from like the Koch brothers and Fox News.
The tea party took control of the Republican Party and forced every noncompliant Republican out via the primaries. It handed control of GOP to Koch brothers and no Republican in office today dares to cross Fox News. They succeeded in that goal even if those policies harmed the country (and they don’t care).
That’s not a “successful leftward strategy” When voters get tricked into nonvoting donors gain more power in the parties. Like that happens in both parties. None of the stated goals of the tea party happened but the corporations behind the tea party succeeded. Its 100% the opposite of a successful leftist strategy
the tea aparty didnt seem to be about goals, it was about grievance. Seemed to be the birth of maga. But I admit I wasnt listening to them very closely.
you can still find their stated listed of goals. Trump actually killed the tea party when he passed his deficit bomb tax cuts. Like Paul Ryan basically was the face of the tea party and bailed out once it became obvious he was never serious about it.
The dem equivalent of the Tea Party are “Blue Dog Democrats” “Joe Manchin/Kristen Sinema” “Eric Adams”
If you aren’t willing to vote for somewhat icky democrats you get the first ex-republican corporations can scoop up. Not voting will solidify Dick Cheney and Nikki Haley as the furthest left we’ll get to choose from next election because if Joe Biden is electable and Harris isnt, the obvious conclusion democrats will be sold on is that they need to be somewhere between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
Yeah. You can protest against the politician you voted for.
AIPAC has a stranglehold on our entire system of government and it wont let it go or allow that to change. Protest has become meaningless.
You’re protest doesn’t matter to them, only your vote. It’s not like you’re going to vote for the Republican or third party candidate.