its a common refrain. I don’t particularly care.

And what makes you conclude that violent opposition from Muslim fanatics prohibits the immigrants from being peaceful?

Who invited them to Palestinian? did they have a statue saying ‘bring us your tired, your weak, your sick?’ why call them violent muslin fanatics and not just Muslim fanatics?

We both know why jerusalum was chosen. because they considered it their holy land. we also both know that immigration is rarely accepted by local populations. just look at our own country (assuming you live in the US).

If you think I care about the palestinians any more than the jews in israel you’re incorrect. I care that American weapons and funds are committing a genocide, and act clearly prohibited by our laws. I care very deeply that both sides stop killing each other. Did you know that the biden admin, and the saudis were close to having an agreement to create a palestinian state and normalize relations with israel and the suadis on oct 6 just prior to the attacks? I wonder why hamas attacked, I wonder why bibi is going on a rampage. both parties that benefit from tense relations.

Can you imagine what might have happened in bibi just took the hit and tried to work it out peacefully? can you imagine if biden put his foot down just once early on and forced them to?

I don’t give a shit who threw the first punch generations ago. what matters is the actions that are being taken today. I fear now we’re another 4 generations away from peace.

ah yes, the classic ‘it was their land originally’ argument. they had to fight a civil war with the local government and won due to support from western powers.

The British government had publicly committed itself to the creation of a Jewish homeland in the 1917 Balfour declaration. Palestinian Arabs opposed this design, asserting their rights over the former Ottoman territories and seeking to prevent Jewish immigration. As a result, Arab–Jewish tensions grew in the succeeding decades of British administration. In late 1947, the United Nations voted for the partition of Mandate Palestine and the creation of a Jewish and an Arab state on its territory; the Jews accepted the plan, while the Arabs rejected it. A civil war ensued, won by the Jews.

After pushing out the Ottomans, Palestine came under martial law. The British, French and Arab Occupied Enemy Territory Administration governed the area shortly before the armistice with the Ottomans until the promulgation of the mandate in 1920.

that not nearly the same thing. as ‘peaceful immigration’ as you try to imply. I don’t particularly care one way or the other, religious fanatics are gonna fanatic. do you have a particular point you were trying to make?

Lolol invented israel to eecape blood shed. Thats rich. Because taking one group of religious fanatics and stealing the land of another group of religious fanatics never caused blood shed. Rofl man i havent laughed this hard all week. Thanks.

I dint particularly care if they court me. Harris can have all the policies in the world she cant enact 99% of them without democrats in the legislature ao they’re worth less than the paper they’re written on without yhose commitments. Its not like they have a job other than writing this legislation. Should have these bills ready to go with their signatures on them. Now that would convince me she can deliver.

Now if harris committed to arms embargo by upholding leahy w/ israel, or keeping ms khan, or promising to support striking workers with aid, id be all over her. Because she can do that.

You see the difference between me and you is i hold politicians accountable for what they can do…not what i want to hear.

Incorrect, you can see Harris scrambling for votes from other groups the dnc has also disenfranchised. This entire conversation id proof that its not a wash. Its a net loss for the dems. There are only so many times a group can say but we’re better than those guys whole doing the exact same thing as those guys before people laugh and tune them out.

DNC wants votes?

• were is mandatory pto, sick days?
• where is universal healthcare?
• where is police/judicial reforms?
• where is labor support?
• where the fuck is my non genocidal option?

My vote was up for grabs by the dnc and they decided to stay the course. Biden lost my vote when he committed to breaking a strike and then a genocide. Thats on them. Dont like it bitch at them for running a shitty platform.

At this point the only way ill believe dems during an election is they have the bills ready to go and presigned by Congress

Genocide occurs with either one. Get a clue. If you dont like it, tell your reps and stfu about peoples voting decisions. Its not your place to judge their decisions with their votes.

If harris loses because of her support for genocide thats on her for not reading the room in two of only 5 states that matter.

Sucks to be her and the Democrats but thems the breaks when your partisan and incapable of doing the right thing

Lol. Well they were alive until Israel started genociding so likely all of them? They gave no value dead.

Frankly it doesn’t matter Hamas and Israel government are shit groups that have been killing each other for decades. We never should have created Israel in the first place. It was doomed to bloodshed from the moment it was thought of.

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Take your Zionist bs elsewhere.

Excuse me im talking.

lol wow thats nonsense. (that such a rule exists) =)

I’d probably lay the majority at their feet. between turning the region into a war zone, starvation etc, the chances of them surviving the situation is close to zero. as far as wikipedia is concerned out of the 251 hostages…

• 117 were returned by hamas in a prisoner exchange.
• 4 were released unilaterally by hamas.
• 8 were rescued by IDF.
• 34 bodies have been retrieved (likely dead due to the war zone)
• 3 bodies returned through unspecified means.

so frankly Israel’s track record here for ‘rescuing’ the hostages is pretty abysmal. and I can’t think of a worse way than to turn a region into a war zone to rescue them. so far it looks like hamas has been fairly willing to negotiate prisoner releases. who knows if thats still the case though. since you know we killed off the leader who was looking to get a peace deal. but I doubt many more are going to be returned alive after this. I feel for those families and its unfortunate their countries leadership is going to get most of them killed.

but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter who killed those hostages. they’re dead and nothing will change that. all I know is turning the region into a blood bath didn’t help their chances.

Writing in a name won’t invalidate a ballot, at least not in any state i’m aware of, what lead you to say that? genuinely curious.

it’s a binary choice

its not, as evidenced by the fact there are 5 options, now as we both obviously know FPTP is a horrible system and leads to a collapse of viable parties, but even in that situation you have 3 options. A,B, Neither. and I’m nethier. neither kamala nor trump have policies that i support. and trump can’t impact the larger scheme of things i care about my local government prevents that.

non-participation benefits the crueler conservatives

no its a neutral stance, and you’re upset that people dont care about your prefered candidate because she doesn’t bring anything to the table that my state doesn’t already have. if i lived in texas/florida the equation would be different but i don’t and harris will easily win in my state.

And that’s the programme. It’s been explained so many fucking times that I’m not sure how “but her emails” you need to be not to get it.

but you don’t get it. harris doesn’t bring anything to the table. if i was an arab in michigan right now i’d be looking at her ticket and going:

• nothing to help with inflation.
• nothing to help with labor rights.
• nothing to help with corporate corruption (see above two issues).
• and shes literally willing to support killing my family and friends in the middle east.

If voting 3rd candidate gets that person to the poll booth and they vote 3rd party/blank/etc and down ticket dems vs not showing up at all. I take that as a win. Its not our fault harris, the alleged law and order candidate, wouldn’t commit to enforcing the law on arms sales. if the zionists have a problem with that, well thats on them, maybe you should bitch about them being intransigent about fucking genocide.

Try to clue in before voting, okay?

already voted mate, maybe get a clue in the future on the entire system before opening your mouth. you’re position only is rational by assuming there is only one office on the ballot. sadly harris didn’t turn it around in time to win my vote. but thats her fault not mine. I have a laundry list of issues that if she ticket any of them personally I would have voted for her. she didn’t. not my fault. genocide was just one of the ones where the ask was so small it should have been a no brainer. If the majority of the zionists are willing to support trump if harris won’t sell israel weapons I don’t particular care and think you should save your ire for them not me.

I’m not preventing harris from not being genocidal thats on her, I’m not stopping zionists from recognizing that israel’s behavior is unconscionable, thats on them. If harris loses because of israel’s behavior feel free to bitch at those voters they’re the ones who caused the loss by not supporting their brothers and sisters of another faith from being subject to a genocidal war.

I’m not the one preventing us changing our voting system to ranked choice. that’s on the DNC/GOP. Hell I’ve canvased and gathered signatures for the damn thing in my state what have you fucking done to kill the spoiler effect?

I’m simply not going to give my vote to a candidate who won’t commit to supporting labor and won’t commit to not committing a genocide; especially when it won’t change the outcome in any manner.

Abilene effect

also what makes you think we’re part of the same group? This simply doesn’t apply.

edit: changed jews -> zionists, because its not the jews in america causing this problem.

see she could also have said: I’ll happily address your concerns at the end, please feel free to stay until then. and then done so. instead they’re escorted away and she never mentions the issue again. shes trying to ignore the issue and its going to cost her, maybe it costs her the election, maybe it doesn’t we wont know until the votes are in. sadly it cost her my vote, but im not in a swing state.

We’re are not backing trump either. you just have to live without our support. if you have enough votes great. meanwhile many of these people may vote third party and vote for dems down ticket; as I did. which is still a win overall for dems, just means harris might have less votes. which if they’re in a state like i am that is 20+ lean dem a non-issue for harris.

while we like bernie he doesnt control our votes. harris can re-earn our votes if she wins and about faces on the issue. if she doesnt win, well thats on her for her decisions on a number of issues that would have personally caused my vote to be cast for her. none of which she was willing to give.

people are scanning, it happens, done it myself. the problem is people are so scared of harris losing they’re attacking people who have no interest in supporting harris as a result of this issue and think that will somehow get them to vote harris. shrug

if harris loses she loses and thats on her. she wants to play the law and order candidate while simultaneously not committing to upholding the laws we have on the books and enabling a genocide well thats on her.

Can’t help that shes committing the same errors of judgement that biden did and we didn’t support him either after he started breaking strikes and enabling genocide.

No one is asking her to do anything as VP, this person is saying harris is committed to enabling israel’s genocide and has a history of supporting israel unconditionally. we want her to commit to upholding american laws around not supplying arms genocidal regimes as president; which israel categorically is currently. literally every organization that has investigated israeli conduct in Gaza and now Lebanon has come to the same conclusion. The UN, WHO, our own internal analysis.

They’ve gone way past self defense and managed to kill more of the hostages than hamas has.

edit: I scanned over the she modifier sorry. yes that would be true. but shes no better either.

— remains relevant to others in the thread.

She may lose either way; and you’re an idiot if you think people who are disgusted by us supplying weapons to the genocidal regime in israel are worse than trump.

1. if you’re in a swing state vote harris
2. if you’re in a democratic bastion feel free to vote third party, dont worry the majority of the liberal lemmings will vote for harris.
3. let your reps know you don’t support arming israel while they’re actively committing a genocide and refusing to commit to a cease fire which is against our laws and harris if she wants to claim is in favor of upholding the law needs to back.

I’d rather put boots on the ground to defend israel than let them continue a genocide of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Lets see… harris won’t get my vote beccause shes throwing a minority group under the genocidal bus (among a laundry list of other labor issues) and trump also likes to through minority groups under genocidal bus (along with a train load of other issues). yes, I definitely think trump would do a better job… I think you need to work on your reasoning abilities.

I want people to show up and vote regardless of who they support for president. if genocide is there line in the sand like it is mine then all the more reason to get them to go and not check harris but likely check all the down ballot candidate. The fact harris is failing as a candidate isnt my or their fault. its hers and her useless platform. her job is to get votes if she can’t convince people thats on her. I’ve let her and my critters know whats okay and whats absolutely not okay. now she gets to make her decision on her move.

if she loses thats her fault. not yours, not mine, not anyone who showed up and checked their boxes. Now I need to go and remind my critters since its monday, as ive been doing every work day this month, that genocide is not okay and I know where each of them stands on it and what I expect them to do.

Are you doing the legwork of telling her directly?

yes, every person in my congressional animal pen knows where i stand and that they should pressure her. harris has no personal interest in my vote since she will comfortably win in my state. however my critters know i’m watching them and my friend circle has done the same.

let me be clear here: I have a laundry list of issues with harris’ platform. there is literally nothing on there that I can about directly:

• no health care reform (reducing means testing for medicare/single payer/reducing costs etc)
• no labor reform (mandatory PTO/sick leave/minimum wage increases/non-compete removal, etc)
• no commitment to keeping khan as head of FTC.
• and is willing to genocide a minority group.

my ask from harris is to commit to doing the one thing she can 100% do herself as a president and thats commit to israel’s safety while preventing from them genociding. if that requires giving israel a small bloody nose by not protecting them in the UN and stopping arms shipments. fine and many jews in the US agree on this.

Im telling people vote with their conscience on harris, why? because it’ll get them to the poll booth, jill/claudia might get their vote instead of harris but know what else? the down ballot democrats are more likely to get their vote. thats more important than trump/harris. if trump wins but democrats get the majority in both houses and we keep them we’ll be fine.

You must be looking at a different past than the rest of us.

na just have a different slant. most of the time the democrats run on shitty positions like anti-gun and border nonsense. but ignore things like labor rights, healthcare, and education, and the economy. thats why they lose.

Your entire premise is that your choice will cause a candidate to alter their behavior

yes, because thats how voting works, and why my state is literally a single party state.

I’d wager she checks quite a lot of them, when considering the alternative. Status quo is not ideal, but it is better than marked backsliding, which is what you’re gambling.

no, thats what all of you’re are gambling, including harris, you’ll vote for her because shes not trump. she has your vote. know what votes she doesn’t have? the 100k in michigan whose friends and family are being genocided by her policies.

Which is different than the entire history of the state of Israel how? Your alternatives are an unbroken trend of spineless opposition, and enthusiastic support. I do not consider enthusiastic support to be an acceptable risk in my electoral stratagems.

what the fuck are you going on about? lol no one is saying abandon the jews, just stop giving them weapons until they stop being literally genocidal morons over there. you know, follow our fucking laws on arm sales.

The deaths will not decrease under the alternative evil, in fact they will most certainly increase under the other evil.

you have no idea what evil is. the fact you are trying to brow beat people over a person willing to throw a minority group under the genocidal bus is mind boggling considering all the evil you’re talking about is literally a bunch of minority groups whom have been thrown under various busses. now I have to wonder which other ones will she through under the bus of joy and alleged law and order.

As I said, call your congress critters, demand they stop arms to israel and that they pressure harris and then vote with your heart on election day. if thats jill/claudia/harris it doesn’t matter. I’m more interested in getting people to the booths for all the local and down ballot issues.

now if you don’t support protecting the palestenians and think israel should be slaughtering them then thats on you and you’re far more evil than any person voting 3rd party. I’m just happy they voted regardless of their feelings on harris.

Yarp just sitting with my ballot waiting for her to commit. its a shame really. the MIC may result in the end of american democracy.