But isn’t that kind of their point? No matter how many elections we have where they ignore the people asking for pretty basic positive change, they keep moving further away from positive change to court the people who want negative change?
It’s actually their entire point. “Stop supporting a real-ass genocide” is a pretty easy lesson to learn. But they actively move the other direction. So…you kind of agree with the people you’re trying to say don’t have a point.
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I dunno man. I think it’s much more likely we are seeing the product of the bots. You can’t expect every single site with comments to have propaganda bots. It takes a much smaller number of bots of bots to affect a much larger number of people. Someone has to program and deploy bots to places, the bots can’t just show up anywhere and everywhere there is political conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRBh6dKXxog&t=200s
This commentator shows it about a minute or so into the video.
Do you guys think lemmy is a valuable enough target to deploy bot propaganda accounts? I’m not sure I think so.
How does the fact that he accidentally streamed himself watching gay porn —and then tried to blame, I believe, Hezbollah, if I’m remembering correctly—not come up every single time someone mentions his name? It should be the second half of his introduction, like accolades or a PhD
How are we already letting this fucking narrative take root?
TRUMP DID NOT WIN SOME EVER-IMPORTANT SWING VOTER. He kept his base while democratic support shriveled. This is the exact recipe to get the same fucking thing happening in four years where democrats refuse to offer anything but some “centrist” bootlicking bullshit.
Don’t let them spread this fucking bullshit
Ah. A ghost boy born to Orange parents. Genetics are, like, magic
Depends, are you a cop?
I think part of the problem is that liberals don’t actually think we live in an inherently just and fair world. But that they think that capitalism, corporatism, and “stability” at any cost (even if that stability is a downward slope to fascism/oligopoly and ecocide) can still be “just” and “fair.”
Look at—and I hate to use Bernie as the example, but it’s relevant—how Bernie’s kinda progressive policies were treated by the party. They refused to let him win. And then pseudo-“adopted” the outward appearance of those policies to win voters. If his policies aren’t harmful enough to refuse to endorse them…why would you not just let him be president? Why stop him and take facsimiles of his policies? Is it because they knew they would win them votes but they’d never in a million years enact those policies? What was scaring them about him winning with his (again, very moderate) policies?
This is just the most recent and telling example. And then…I mean, the genocide thing. Not supporting a genocide is a pretty goddamn easy ask. But they were probably bleeding voters because they just wouldn’t.
These are not big, crazy things to ask for. But stopping them and enacting helpful policies was unthinkable to them. Why is that. Because more than anything, they would protect the rotting corpse of capitalism and the global hegemony over anything that might help people. And that comes back to their fucking billionaire backers, I assume? They are the ones who stand to lose scraps of their money and power.
I mean, I have to assume that is the answer. But it can’t be denied, I don’t think.
It’s not about overthrowing the government. Local action to protect vulnerable peoples, mutual aid. The US Govt can’t be “overthrown.” But local enacting of harmful policies can be stopped.
That’s kinda the problem with the US. People can’t just all travel to the centrally located capital. Look at how the republicans have continually tried to “send it back to the states” where they can wash their hands of, say, outlawing abortion. Focus on your area, find mutual aid groups to support those being harmed by these laws. That is how you can effectively fight creeping fascism. They can put down one centrally located demonstration no problem. But they would have a much harder time fighting every town. (Psst This is also good advice in your own town. Spread out, and be more effective. Move around, don’t stay all together. Not when you’re acting, and not when you’re fleeing)
Exactly. On the fuckin head.
Just goes to show how deeply-run this “focus on courting the fascists” was in the campaign.
Who’s the ghost boy
Voting won’t save us. Not trying to throw a wrench in your plans to stay healthy and happy. But true mutual aid is what is most necessary now. Voting is what got us into this mess. Incrementalist politics will not save the climate, will not save us from fascism.
It’s the hard truth that the ownership class has brought to our lives. It’s the logical outcome of capitalism. This is sort of the endgame. We fight now. Relying on voting alone only enables more of the same. We’ve been trying to vote as long as the system has been around. And it’s led us here.
Evangelicals are now the inmates who have taken over the asylum.
I mean, not that I’m pro-this scenario, but I don’t think in this hypothetical there would be anyone who would take on Russia, china, and the US. More like “whatever you three are doing…I guess we’re doing too.”
One could make the argument that the leftists are right, and the people who keep supporting the democrats as they continually walk us down the path toward collapse are the ones that are slurping up propaganda about the system being able to save itself.
Look at the long list of anarchist and leftist thinkers. They’ve been ignored and shunted off to the side since the late 1800s. Arrested, killed, devastated by state propaganda. Assassinated, vilified.
All the while, democrats have been walking hand in hand with the republicans, defending the rotting corpse of capitalism as it drags us all under. We’ve had answers as to why so many are suffering. But those answers are a threat to the ownership class and the prevailing order. And I would argue that not upturning that order, instead opting to vote for the “lesser of two evils” no matter what, is 50% responsible for the situation we’re in.
You said it yourself. You want spineless, feckless, out of touch leaders so that we can avoid spiteful, hateful leaders. The spineless, feckless out of touch bunch was courting the spiteful hateful bunch. Because throughout history, liberals will reach for the fascists when the cry for true change to help the people become deafening. Look at France. Right now. The liberal, trying to hold onto power and the standing order, formed a coalition with the right wing, instead of the left wing that won the majority of the votes. Look at Harris, parading around the fuckin Cheney family when people were really just asking them to stop slaughtering children in Gaza and the West Bank.
Isn’t following that same path, regardless of the recorded history of a fascist outcome the more likely candidate for “slurping up propaganda?” Blaming the electorate for their entirely reasonable wants being ignored.
This is exactly how fascists have come to power. Through a desire to maintain the status quo and an uneasy alliance between liberals and the right wing. Defenders of the status quo thinking it’s better to go fascist than to challenge the prevailing order. Blaming the people who want real change when the people you were voting for lurched right is the definition of succumbing to a propaganda campaign.
You can’t say that it didn’t contribute at all. I don’t think anyone is. And if they are, they’re stupid. But trying to boil it down to just that answer is even more stupid.
Harris retained more male Biden voters than female.
Capitalism is eating people alive. And people are fuckin sick of it. The democrats are the one party that actually pretends to try to appear to be on the “right” side, but will throw the working class under their campaign bus the minute the big money donors pull on their strings. So the betrayal people feel from the dems is fuckin palpable.
That, I think, is the biggest contributor. We are told they are the ones that will actually do good, but then get in office and “stay the course,” so their voters turn on them. Then we get people like trump and bush in office, and people are disgusted, so we hold our noses and vote for the democrats. But they’re Lucy and we’re Charlie Brown, and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile, the Overton window keeps lurching to the right, capitalism scorches the earth and robs us blind, and we all get more desperate. People are angrier than ever, and feel even more betrayed because it’s increasingly clear to more and more people that we have no one in our corner.
But here come the democrats again, telling us we’re on the right path, that we just have to trust them and their incrementalism nonsense while they try to court some nonexistent right-leaning swing voter. They fucked up bad on that last point this go round. They turned their backs on us in a big way to parade the Cheneys around telling us they were going to put republicans in the White House even if the democrats win? What in the fuck were they thinking?
Yes you do. We all do.
Why use that description of race? It’s the word used back then, but not today.