I find the pessimism in the comments here to be pretty disappointing. Yeah of course Americans aren’t ready for revolution, of course right-wingers have warped views of the world, but the large-scale view that we need radical change is a completely harvestable one. Even if you disagree and think we’re doomed to barbarism/major civil war, basically the only way to help with that is left-wing orgs providing hope, leadership and promulgating real avenues for change.
If your response is anything other than “We need more and bigger orgs to help people and take leadership”, then I’m not sure you’re respondin’ right.
I find the pessimism in the comments here to be pretty disappointing
Ironically, it reveals how disinterested your average Hexbear American is in actually organizing a revolution. If you swear it’s impossible despite any evidence, then you have no obligation to do anything. Better just to be cynical online!
It’s hard to imagine a bigger coward and worm than someone who swears that they are a revolutionary communist but acerbically mocks the people when they express any interest in that.
it’s because a ton of people both here on hb and elsewhere online shouldnt be describing themselves as “revolutionary communists” but as sympathizers. copy pasting something i said in another comment: i dont think it’s actually right to call myself a marxist/communist/revolutionary, i am not really educated nor dedicated enough, but i generally agree with the ideas so i call myself a sympathizer. i wish more people would do this online, because i see way too many arguments about very basic shit from people claiming to be marxists that need to stop distorting the term
Nobody is expecting you to be the next Che Guevara, or dedicate your entire life to the cause - that’s absolutely fine, doesn’t stop you being a communist. I’m not saying everyone’s response should be “I WILL JOIN AN ORG NOW” (grand as that would be).
My issue is with people sitting around and just saying how doomed and unsaveable everyone is WHILE being presented with objective evidence that there’s desire for change. That’s even more harmful than standard doomerism.
Nobody is expecting you to be the next Che Guevara, or dedicate your entire life to the cause - that’s absolutely fine, doesn’t stop you being a communist
i think we should be. that is the level of dedication we need from communists to actually win, and if you cant give that, it’s absolutely fine like you said, just dont pretend to be a communist and muddy the waters. call yourself a sympathizer, a fellow traveler, etc. this doesnt mean don’t organize either! that is what mass orgs are supposed to be for, people who are sympathetic to the cause but cant dedicate themselves to becoming true communists. say what you will about PSL, but like i think that is why their stuff like PYM is brilliant because it’s actually attempting to have mass orgs for people to work with.
I think “dooming” is stupid yes, but this is again because most people doing so arent actually communists attempting to do serious analyses
Well then, I heartily disagree in terms of the labels.
The Communist Manifesto was written to be so short and easy to read because it was aimed at poorly-educated workers. Because a communist party is a party of communists - poorly educated workers and theory-laden party leaders alike. A Communist is someone who believes in and argues in favour of communism. I would very much reject the idea of a ‘True Communist’.
Either way, I equally denigrate ‘dooming’ from Communists and so-called "Sympathiser"s alike, I have no differing expectations of the two.
Are you still wearing a mask in public spaces? Is anyone in your org? Talk to me about cowardice.
e. to make myself absolutely clear, how seriously do you take COVID, and if prevention via mandatory respirators at any demonstration or meeting is not the expected bare minimum conduct, why not? What world do you think you are building? If this is not up there with climate action on your itinerary, any world you imagine is not equitable. It is not sustainable. It is certainly not revolutionary.
Yeah its very bleak. Im the only masker in my org (and even in 2021 when i joined, everyone was chomping at the bit to start antimasking), and taking precautions means im left out of a lot of the social and community building stuff unless I’m willing to sit masked in a superspreader dinner
I cant stop organizing bc id feed even worse about myself, but fuck its depressing when even communists are just fine with ableism.and eugenics and will swallow propanda whole and endorse the liberal line of covid being over. Me and my family is just acceptable losses to them
Can you clarify your questions? I am wearing a mask at all times outside of my house; generally even in my car so I don’t forget to bring one wherever I am going. Is this cowardice or bravery?
It is correct, not cowardly. I made an edit to hopefully clear any further confusion. I very much dislike the “coward” polemic from anyone calling themselves radical or revolutionary (hah!) when I know they all pulled the mask off along with everyone else years ago. That is cowardice.
this is not comradely. being adamant about masks is appropriate, but this is just rude. if you would like to see hard rules about COVID measures on hexbear, go chime in on the code of conduct thread as I saw this subject raised there. In the meantime, express your disagreement in civil terms.
Fwiw I’m fine with comraderat’s comment, my low effort comment was meant to be ironic and in retrospect was in bad taste. (Now removed) Obviously, downplaying COVID’s ongoing effects is liberalism. If I thought someone was a chud I would also tell them to go fuck themselves, I think that should be allowed here.
Sorry but I’m not going to revise site policy unilaterally to protect someone’s “right” to tell another user to go fuck themselves. Since we just had a big struggle session where users were complaining about mods doing exactly this type of unilateral decision, I encourage you to take it to the code of conduct thread and advocate for what you would like to see.
How is HamManBad’s comment not in violation of the existing Code of Conduct? The first rule under the General Rules reads:
We are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all, regardless of gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, or other similar characteristic.
Under the Moderation section, it says:
Remarks that violate the Hexbear standards of conduct, including hateful, hurtful, oppressive, or exclusionary remarks, are not allowed.
Anti-masking comments, a behavior that contributes directly to widespread death and disability, and is particularly harmful towards disabled members of the community, seems like it would be clearly in violation of these. If you must remove ComradeRat’s comment then whatever, but the anti-masking comment remains up. How can you justify this?
comraderat is quite literally punching up here. I think you should reinstate this comment, the other user can disengage if they want. this is crossing the line into civility politics.
Exactly, the solution is for people who have spent the time to educate themselves to start helping others. What we’re seeing is that there is a collapse of faith in the current system which makes people open to new ideas. That should be seen as an opportunity to start organizing because more people than ever are actually willing to listen.
Mao didn’t have to lead a mass of Hitlers! They had come off the Taiping Rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion relatively recently before the start of the civil war, and most crucially, Chinese workers and peasants were at the bottom, not top, of the global labor pyramid. Chaos was to their benefit.
edit: not to mention that class collaboration helps a proletarian anticolonial movement like the Communists in the Chinese Civil War because it aligns elements in the national bourgeoisie and proletariat/peasantry against the colonial ruling class; the nature of a similar conflict in the US would surely have it reversed where white workers would collaborate with the ruling class to protect their place (this is literally already the precedent for the American Revolution and the Civil War)
I didn’t mean to say that it wasn’t worth trying, I’m just trying to explain why the comparison is inadequate and could lead to taking the wrong approach to organizing. But it’s still absolutely worth trying!
I find the pessimism in the comments here to be pretty disappointing. Yeah of course Americans aren’t ready for revolution, of course right-wingers have warped views of the world, but the large-scale view that we need radical change is a completely harvestable one. Even if you disagree and think we’re doomed to barbarism/major civil war, basically the only way to help with that is left-wing orgs providing hope, leadership and promulgating real avenues for change.
If your response is anything other than “We need more and bigger orgs to help people and take leadership”, then I’m not sure you’re respondin’ right.
Ironically, it reveals how disinterested your average Hexbear American is in actually organizing a revolution. If you swear it’s impossible despite any evidence, then you have no obligation to do anything. Better just to be cynical online!
It’s hard to imagine a bigger coward and worm than someone who swears that they are a revolutionary communist but acerbically mocks the people when they express any interest in that.
it’s because a ton of people both here on hb and elsewhere online shouldnt be describing themselves as “revolutionary communists” but as sympathizers. copy pasting something i said in another comment: i dont think it’s actually right to call myself a marxist/communist/revolutionary, i am not really educated nor dedicated enough, but i generally agree with the ideas so i call myself a sympathizer. i wish more people would do this online, because i see way too many arguments about very basic shit from people claiming to be marxists that need to stop distorting the term
Nobody is expecting you to be the next Che Guevara, or dedicate your entire life to the cause - that’s absolutely fine, doesn’t stop you being a communist. I’m not saying everyone’s response should be “I WILL JOIN AN ORG NOW” (grand as that would be).
My issue is with people sitting around and just saying how doomed and unsaveable everyone is WHILE being presented with objective evidence that there’s desire for change. That’s even more harmful than standard doomerism.
i think we should be. that is the level of dedication we need from communists to actually win, and if you cant give that, it’s absolutely fine like you said, just dont pretend to be a communist and muddy the waters. call yourself a sympathizer, a fellow traveler, etc. this doesnt mean don’t organize either! that is what mass orgs are supposed to be for, people who are sympathetic to the cause but cant dedicate themselves to becoming true communists. say what you will about PSL, but like i think that is why their stuff like PYM is brilliant because it’s actually attempting to have mass orgs for people to work with.
I think “dooming” is stupid yes, but this is again because most people doing so arent actually communists attempting to do serious analyses
Well then, I heartily disagree in terms of the labels.
The Communist Manifesto was written to be so short and easy to read because it was aimed at poorly-educated workers. Because a communist party is a party of communists - poorly educated workers and theory-laden party leaders alike. A Communist is someone who believes in and argues in favour of communism. I would very much reject the idea of a ‘True Communist’.
Either way, I equally denigrate ‘dooming’ from Communists and so-called "Sympathiser"s alike, I have no differing expectations of the two.
Are you still wearing a mask in public spaces? Is anyone in your org? Talk to me about cowardice.
e. to make myself absolutely clear, how seriously do you take COVID, and if prevention via mandatory respirators at any demonstration or meeting is not the expected bare minimum conduct, why not? What world do you think you are building? If this is not up there with climate action on your itinerary, any world you imagine is not equitable. It is not sustainable. It is certainly not revolutionary.
Yeah its very bleak. Im the only masker in my org (and even in 2021 when i joined, everyone was chomping at the bit to start antimasking), and taking precautions means im left out of a lot of the social and community building stuff unless I’m willing to sit masked in a superspreader dinner
I cant stop organizing bc id feed even worse about myself, but fuck its depressing when even communists are just fine with ableism.and eugenics and will swallow propanda whole and endorse the liberal line of covid being over. Me and my family is just acceptable losses to them
Can you clarify your questions? I am wearing a mask at all times outside of my house; generally even in my car so I don’t forget to bring one wherever I am going. Is this cowardice or bravery?
It is correct, not cowardly. I made an edit to hopefully clear any further confusion. I very much dislike the “coward” polemic from anyone calling themselves radical or revolutionary (hah!) when I know they all pulled the mask off along with everyone else years ago. That is cowardice.
deleted by creator
The revolution is on its tenth COVID reinfection, struggling to climb a flight of stairs.
Removed by mod
this is not comradely. being adamant about masks is appropriate, but this is just rude. if you would like to see hard rules about COVID measures on hexbear, go chime in on the code of conduct thread as I saw this subject raised there. In the meantime, express your disagreement in civil terms.
Fwiw I’m fine with comraderat’s comment, my low effort comment was meant to be ironic and in retrospect was in bad taste. (Now removed) Obviously, downplaying COVID’s ongoing effects is liberalism. If I thought someone was a chud I would also tell them to go fuck themselves, I think that should be allowed here.
thanks comrade
Thank you for deleting your comment and saying this, I appreciate it
good to see hexbear is still pro-eugenics as long as you are polite and comradely about it.
Sorry but I’m not going to revise site policy unilaterally to protect someone’s “right” to tell another user to go fuck themselves. Since we just had a big struggle session where users were complaining about mods doing exactly this type of unilateral decision, I encourage you to take it to the code of conduct thread and advocate for what you would like to see.
How is HamManBad’s comment not in violation of the existing Code of Conduct? The first rule under the General Rules reads:
Under the Moderation section, it says:
Anti-masking comments, a behavior that contributes directly to widespread death and disability, and is particularly harmful towards disabled members of the community, seems like it would be clearly in violation of these. If you must remove ComradeRat’s comment then whatever, but the anti-masking comment remains up. How can you justify this?
comraderat is quite literally punching up here. I think you should reinstate this comment, the other user can disengage if they want. this is crossing the line into civility politics.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Exactly, the solution is for people who have spent the time to educate themselves to start helping others. What we’re seeing is that there is a collapse of faith in the current system which makes people open to new ideas. That should be seen as an opportunity to start organizing because more people than ever are actually willing to listen.
“Everything under heaven is in chaos, we’re fucked
”
Mao didn’t have to lead a mass of Hitlers! They had come off the Taiping Rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion relatively recently before the start of the civil war, and most crucially, Chinese workers and peasants were at the bottom, not top, of the global labor pyramid. Chaos was to their benefit.
edit: not to mention that class collaboration helps a proletarian anticolonial movement like the Communists in the Chinese Civil War because it aligns elements in the national bourgeoisie and proletariat/peasantry against the colonial ruling class; the nature of a similar conflict in the US would surely have it reversed where white workers would collaborate with the ruling class to protect their place (this is literally already the precedent for the American Revolution and the Civil War)
Ok so I’ll try and you can not try🤷♂️
I didn’t mean to say that it wasn’t worth trying, I’m just trying to explain why the comparison is inadequate and could lead to taking the wrong approach to organizing. But it’s still absolutely worth trying!
That’s fair, sorry for being pithy