A simple Microsoft 365 Roadmap update will now generate a raft of unhappy headlines. The idea is simple. “When users connect to their organization’s Wi-Fi, Teams will automatically set their work location to reflect the building they are working in.”
Forget the locational anonymity of a Teams virtual background. Teams will update your location when connected to your company’s WiFi. On video, you may have your usual background complete with company logo. But your boss will know you’re not in work.
Teams is trash, electron is a miscarriage of an idea, and M$ is totally morally bankrupt.
Shocker.
Electron is amazing, for smaller teams, individuals or whatever BUT a trillion dollar company cutting corners on native apps, even for their own platform… come on
You not working?
AWS down
Oh ok, don’t worry
Teams is already such a bloated fucking mess of an application.
I’ve gone back and forth with my opinion on Teams, but now I agree with you. Earlier there was a lot of shit talk about it, and it just worked for me with no problems. After all of the additional bloat (now we have Copilot in it) it crashes all the time.
It never crashes for me - because I have to use the browser PWA app, because the native app doesn’t work on Linux that great.
On the other hand, the UX is absolutely terrible.
The native app for Linux is no longer supported anyway. PWA is the only official way now.
And yes the UX is terrible. Especially the search function, it always finds unrelated things and almost never what I’m looking for. Same thing with Outlook (the real outlook and the ‘new’ one), OneNote and Sharepoint.
It is my #1 and pretty much only usecase for copilot. I think copilot for office is not great but searching for my stuff it does do very well. Paying $30 a month to fix something that should have worked in the first place is a bit mad though.
You might just not be noticing the crashes because it likes to restart silently. I’ll only notice it because sometimes it happens when teams is active on my other monitor and it auddenly disappears. Might be auto update, or maybe even a “we know this app gets worse over time so let’s just restart it regularly as a solution”.
Yeah people hated it for being Microsoft for such a long time that by the time it actually sucked people had been crying wolf for so long it was hard to believe.
To me it has always sucked compared to something like Slack. It has really low information density for example with its huge bubbles around everything. Multi-tenant switching was a really slow and painful process unlike slack which simply has a sidebar for quick switching, and it creates a huge garbage dump in sharepoint when people upload stuff to a chat.
I can’t disagree about multi-tenant, I just used Firefox containers for that because it was only for working with vendors so it wasn’t always on. I think they fixed that in 2022 give or take. The file thing is common with slack, there’s still a garbage dump of files.
I think the information density is a matter of taste. Given the popularity of google products, macos, and gnome and that sort of thing, its safe to say there is a huge market for people who prefer giant whitespace to actual content.
My boss knows I work from home. Get wrecked Teams
Hold on. Let me say this.
If your boss cares more about where you are doing your work, than if your work is getting completed, you need a new boss.
I work in IT support and I’ll say that this isn’t really anything that couldn’t be done before, is just more visible. Office 365 logs what device and app you’re using to connect, the IP address of the requester, what you were requesting from which service… The list is long. It’s a massive amount of data that largely, nobody cares about.
The only time I even look at that information is when some security software flags some action as suspicious, then, and only then, do I even bother.
If you go on vacation and suddenly connect from Florida when you are normally connecting from the UK, I get a notification. If you suddenly start using a well known VPN, I get a notification. The logic is for security. If you suddenly log in from a new place, then it’s more likely that the login in question wasn’t you, and you’ve been hijacked. That’s literally my only interest in your location. Most bosses don’t give a shit either.
If your boss cares more about where you are doing your work, than if your work is getting completed, you need a new boss.
Sure, in principle. Getting a new boss though… do you have any extra lobs laying around?
I work in IT
Aaaand here we go, of course you thought finding a new job was a viable alternative.
I can’t find a new job. I literally hate my current one. My entire management team is full of micromanaging dipshits.
I keep applying for jobs and nothing happens.
I’m not saying it would be easy to find a new job, just that if you’re in that situation, you need one.
So people will know in which company building you’re in? Who gives a shit lol
The problem is they’ll know when your not in a company building. So people can’t WFH even though their boss isn’t watching them at the office anyway.
If you’re outright refusing company rules like that then yeah you sorta run the risk of justifiable sacked lol
It’s not refusing so much as taking advantage of a grey area. The work is still getting done.
It’s not very grey if they’ve been told to get into the office and they aren’t doing that
It’s grey if their boss can’t tell if they’re there or not without a Teams notification. Stupid rules are meant to be ignored.
So it’s grey the same way speed limits are? I dunno man, it seems pretty clear cut to me
Well speeding can arguably make driving more dangerous so not really the same thing. No one is being hurt by people doing the job they can easily do from home, from home. If anything danger is reduced because they’re spending less time on the roads. Stop bootlicking.
That sounds like an issue with the the arrangement between the employee and employer to me.
Yeah, but not everyone has the flexibility to just hop to a different job the second their current one becomes unsatisfactory. Some people have to make do with what they’ve got.
It sounds like you are defending taking an in person job with the intent to deceive your employer by working at home. Because I still fail to see a circumstance where it would be a problem unless the employee is trying to be deceitful to work from someplace unauthorized.
If there’s no reason for them to need to be in the office other than that their middle managers don’t know how to do their job remotely then you’re damn right I’m defending it. If you need a teams notification to know your reports aren’t working from the office then it means they’ve been getting their work done from home and there’s no reason they need to be there. Many places went WFH during Covid and are now dragging their workers back to the office needlessly. Stop bootlicking for corpos.
Well. I’m remote. So they know I’m not at work.
Don’t be surprised when IT tries to move into your house thinking it is an office building
Glad I work at a place that wouldn’t give a fuck as long as I’m getting shit done. This sort of bullshit undermines how people feel about work and likely harms productivity more than it helps (as is tradition with micromanaging people instead of setting them up for success and giving them the space they need to do their job).
Also, people who actually are slacking will find so many ways around this anyhow that it won’t actually matter to them because they already don’t care and are probably smart enough to get around it.
In a lot of ways, I have the opposite of micromanagement, they really don’t care what the hell I am doing as long as I’m delivering my projects effectively.
Sounds like you work at a place that trusts you to do the job you were hired to do.
My take is: If they don’t trust me, wtf am I even doing at a such a fucked up place? Then find a better place to work.
The sad thing is that some orgs that start off with healthy environments can slowly erode into really toxic environments and it’s like a frog boiling in water.
Sometimes it can happen very quickly - all it takes is one person of enough prominence being replaced with another, and something that took years to cultivate is shredded in weeks/months.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen both of these happen up close and personal. Sometimes it’s not always a viable option to try to pick up and move to another job…
Companies also get bought out by other companies and then change drastically overnight.
Yes, without question. That’s usually a fast-track to a highly toxic place, because often the people that they have acquired are viewed as just somehow being there accidentally, or worse, illegitimately, because the new management had no role in finding them, hiring them, and working to create/preserve a culture with them.
Also, many weak managers just want loyalists and that kind of personality just worries that they didn’t get to vet people so the people they have bought won’t be sufficiently loyal…
In my current job, I don’t mind doing a little overtime or working a weekend every now and than. They don’t care what I do, as long as it gets done. They don’t care that I go to the gym during office hours. I’m happy and I’m passionate about my work.
But if they started doing shit like this. I’d be working 9 to 5 and not giving a shit if work gets done or not. I’d become a drone and I’d be looking for other employment.
Fancy that? Don’t you love it when your work treat you like…wait for it… an Adult. Rewarded accordingly, help accountable accordingly. Who’d 've thought! 🤔
No kidding. What dystopian hell do people work in??
Microsoft’s products are no longer usable.
Not safe, not sensible, not smart.
And somehow their implementation of e911 will still not work.
Jokes on them! My company made everyone remote during COVID. It worked so well that they sold the corporate office buildings. We are all remote permanently! As long as I work my scheduled hours, they don’t care where in the world I am.
We JUST did this. I work in commercial real estate and we talked about it in 2018 but management chickened out. After the Pandemic, they forced us to go back for a year but moral fell to the lowest point ever and we couldn’t hire anyone.
Finally, it was time to decide on renewing our lease again and we switched back to remote. It’s been awesome and we’ve hired tons of people from our competitors who are pushing in office mandates.
I hope everyone keeps pushing their office to change. It’s possible.
Lucky bastard
This is definitely a step in the right direction, but why stop there? They should be paying you for getting work done to some agreed-upon standard, regardless of whether that takes 40 hours a week or far less.
I’ve gone through two companies that embraced Work From Home, a lot of companies saw no drop in productivity or results from having their employees comfortable and able to get to work on time.
One company didn’t go down without a fight, it took all the employees including myself, a manager, to speak up and talk to corporate and the CEO’s and say that my team and I oppose returning to the office, we don’t see a reason for it, and many of us will consider alternatives. They key point here is I backed it up with data, showing we only gained productivity and revenue since moving to WFH.
Despite all the hyped headlines out there about “Covid is over, time to go back to work!” we’ve seen for the last couple years, a lot of the changes it ushered in have become permanent. I know a lot of companies yanked the choke-chain around their employee’s necks, but not all.
The second company I moved to was already about 50% WFH, a much larger company too, and they made it totally optional, and they benefited a lot from being able to recruit talent from basically anywhere in the world.
Can I work at your workplace? Do they need an IT guy?
I am glad I work where nobody monitors teams because that would be stupid.
But exactly how will this work for the people who are actually using modern computing? So I am on Azure Virtual Desktop for one instance of teams, and another that I use for calls on a personal laptop, maybe on their wifi but always with a VPN because we habitually run vpns.
So where am I?
List of locations it compiles for you, based on a heuristic analysis of data, time of day, and cross-referenced by your consumer data would do it pretty nicely
I don’t get it. Why would it matter that Teams knows where you are working? If you need to hide from your coworkers or your boss then maybe it’s time to change company?
On the other hand: if Teams is using Wifi to correlate your position you could mess with it by exchanging the access point positions, ie exchange your bosses AP with the one in the cellar.
I can see one legitimate application for this, specifically for accountability during an emergency. It’s one more thing to tell whomever is checking where to look for people and only if it’s actually reliable. I doubt that it would be reliable enough.
Yes, I wouldn’t go so far and trust MS applications in emergency cases :D
To be fair, Microsoft never had “Don’t be evil” as their motto.
Bill Gates was an asshole from the start. Happy to use freely available stuff from the early computing community as well as using his school’s resources to build either DOS or BASIC and then acting like he had built it all with his own resources when ranting about free software. To be clear, I don’t gaf about using free resources to build something and make money from it, but his hypocrisy and anti-competitive BS makes that aspect worse with him.
So it was always shit, it was just that once upon a time, they actually had to make good software that ran on very limited hardware in addition to their anti-competitive BS, and then had a period where they kept trying to make good software but didn’t realize yet that they didn’t need to (like windows ME was pretty much universally panned, but it didn’t drive people away from windows in general).
I think it was win 10 that I first felt like I was in conflict with my OS. Like in win 7, I’d spend time looking at each update’s kdb entry to decide if I wanted it (and skipped the nagware ones about win 10 entirely, for example). In win 10, I had to jump through hoops just to be able to control when it applied updates on my own timeline, not MS’. Win 10 was the worst for resetting settings, like I get it set up like I prefer it to be, then a few updates later I’d have to do some of them again. Though tbf, I don’t recall that happening in the last few years, but other worse enshitification has settled in since then and now windows never even touched my current main machine.
Are people just not going into the office without telling anyone? Like, who is this actually affecting?
Also, if they have to VPN into their company network, like assume many do, won’t that register as being in the office anyway?
I’d view it as more of the opposite: a tool built into the Teams suite to tattle on who isn’t complying with Return to Office policies.
VPNs would depend a bit on configuration. I know my ubiqiti router will let me dump VPN traffic into its own vlan (with dedicated IP range), so it would absolutely be possible to tell it apart from local traffic. At the same time, I’m pretty sure my workplace has all site network traffic VPN’d to the home office, so I’m not if the same logic would apply…
Trust me, if your employer wants to know if you’ve been coming into the office or not, they can easily find out without needing Microsoft Teams to tell them about it. They can see what IP address your machine is connecting from. And if you work in a building with secure access they could also just pull your badge-in history to find out if you’re actually there or not.
Oh, my employer already can and does track compliance via badge-ins, so they definitely know when they’re getting a return on investment from the corporate real estate.
I hadn’t thought about the connecting IP address though, that would absolutely be logged.
Also, if they have to VPN into their company network, like assume many do, won’t that register as being in the office anyway?
If I’m plugged into the local switch, my IP address is a static 192.168.x.x. If I connect via WiFi, it’s dynamic 10.10.x.x. If I’m coming in via VPN, I’m crossing the external firewall, routed to a dedicated remote VLAN based on network permissions, and dynamically assigned 10.70.x.x.
A business doesn’t need Teams to tell them if you’re remote or not. This is just to wave a big public red flag and sow division.
I’m sure this “feature” is aimed at the tech-illiterate micromanagers, like the C-Suite, giving them a nice little icon, not at IT who can easily see this type of thing many different ways.
In my experience the illiterate micromanagers got the nerds to send them reports. Or set up a dashboard to give them a real-time view into how many local vs remote connections there were.
Our RTO mandate was December 2020.
But just think about how much easier it is to see the little icon right there in Teams.
I wish for a world where AI would be put to actual good use and vet such managers seeking such bullshit metrics and dashboard and icons like that, and inform the hiring manager(s) that this kind of thing is incredibly toxic and destroys effectiveness, morale and so on, and that unless such a manager could be retrained to drop such micromanagement nonsense, that the company should pass on hiring them…
What country? I didn’t realize companies were doing that so early.
I know our company started making some kind of noises about it - in fits and starts - but more along the lines of "when we are all coming back in, yadda yadda ", maybe starting in the fall of 2020, but then wave after wave kept happening, we started hiring people in other parts of the country nowhere near an office and people that were near an office started moving away to cheaper locations or places near their aging parents or near their own adult kids, and we started to hear it less and less…
USA.
Most of the tech teams spent their days working with people in offices across the country (and in Europe), so being physically in the office didn’t matter much unless there was a hardware install or something. Didn’t stop brass (headquartered in the Deep South) from doing their best to wag their dicks around (furloughs and pay cuts for those that remained were not enough, it seemed). Before another 12 months passed half the network team had left and there was constant churn on the sysadmin team. Didn’t matter. The company got bought by a bigger fish and the execs got golden parachutes despite nearly running the company into the ground. Meritocracy!
Oh, god, I’m sorry to hear that. Yeah, I still don’t understand, especially after Covid, how so many people in management still have such an obsession with in-person work.
I’d get it if we were talking about the Silent Generation or something. But hell, remote work has been possible since when boomers were in their prime working years. I remember seeing my uncle (boomer) having a terminal at his house back in the 80s. Modems were a thing, etc…some work was definitely something that could be done remote. Journalists had machines they’d carry around with them to send in stories, etc. So it definitely got its start long, long ago. Before I entered the workforce.
But often, it’s now Gen Y that are some of these managers that seem excited to get people into the same crowded space with shitty fluorescent lighting and lots of distractions, shitty chairs and desks, public restrooms, long commutes, paying for parking, stupid dress codes, etc…I mean, WTF. By the time Gen Y hit the workforce, remote work was something very well known and solved. Do they have some kind of weird FOMO for 90s work culture?
I think there are two things. There’s definitely a level of brainwashing where mediocre MBAs who have built a career on “failing upwards” project their own lack of scruples onto their workforce i.e. “if I worked from home I’d just play golf all day so I assume this is true for everyone”. They genuinely don’t understand management models beyond micromanagement because they have no frame of reference for “self-motivated” or “autonomous”.
Then the other factor is that many of the c-level execs at these companies or their bosses (the board) have commercial real estate portfolios. Propping up the value of those units is contingent on companies renting office space. The bosses know which side their bread is buttered and even if they don’t have skin in the game directly will happily do favours for ‘friends’ who they want to impress to help them climb that next rung of the ladder.
Bssids give away your location.
This does worry me a bit. We have an RTO policy. I report to a satellite office far away from corporate HQ which i transferred to after COVID, where I literally work with nobody in this actual building.
We are supposed to go in 2 days a week. I haven’t come to the office in over a year. And the only guy I knew in this office retired recently. I will be surprised if my desk hasn’t been cannibalized.
I guess I’m in a bit of a bind now. Lol! Shit. I don’t like this article.
