curious what folks’ opinions are of these protests. I have family that is apparently going to attend one of them tomorrow.
I really don’t see the point considering protests don’t change anything and the potential for shit to get ugly is high.
I think it’s good when people who usually don’t protest go out on the streets. A lot of those people are willing to learn but even more are very stubborn in their liberal beliefs. In general it’s a good opportunity for more radical groups to reach out to a large part of the general public and teach them some things about follow up steps after the protest. It takes a lot of patience and emotional labour but it can be very fruitful.
While I do not disagree with more pessimistic takes elsewhere in this thread, I think you hit on something important. And to add, liberals who think their free speech is protected and insist on Peaceful! Protest! can get a very rapid political education when their Hands Up, Don’t Shoot! gesture gets them gassed and shot with less-lethals and charged by a hog phalanx just as readily as the protestors who weren’t doing things the approved way.
The doctrine is stupid. “Get 3.5% of the population in the streets and the reigme will fall… somehow?”
But I’m generally pro any mass civic disruption, even if it ain’t going to do much now. tbh the feds could go full and beat the shit out of a bunch liberals and radicalize them to do something more useful next time.
Solidarity is when you defend one another, not just post nice things about each other and pass around the same $20. The actual organization of these protests makes a point that they’re exposing hypocrisy by being utterly defenseless. Thereby exposing the moral repugnance of their attackers. You’ve heard this Gandhi garbage before surely
Yeah, these are all critiques i’ve had of these protests, I just never thought of them as supporting ICE. When you put it in the context of false solidarity or lacking solidarity, that makes sense.
I’m glad MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml gets it now but I still don’t know if I fully understand. you’re saying that because these protests are insisting on being all peaceful and not threatening that means they are just showing our enemies the powerful bourgeoisie that the people have no teeth. right? but how does that mean they are against solidarity? because the protests are peaceful that means the people participating in them are not willing to stand up with force against ICE? how would you say that the the protests should be conducted?
I’m not arguing, I really don’t know what my position is on the protests being a good thing or a bad thing.
You guys, I’m not gonna flip out, you don’t have to apologize for asking clarifying questions after the incoherent diatribes where I try condense too much into a few sentences, or reassure me we are not fighting, most of the people on this app instantaneously call me tankie Hitler, we are all gazpacho. We are all gucci… I don’t know why Meow said that, I don’t put anything particularly well. I am just astonished certain points are not already raised.
I think my acquaintance Mischa on the garbage takes app put it well: the liberal nonviolence playbook is all about giving up your leverage, it sn’t improved by mixing in guns or disorganized violence, because that just adds risk to symbolic actions.
Effective action like striking requires far more concerted organization than “show up to this parade to state your grievances and be ignored while we show off the headcount and advertise the democratic party”. Striking not just like the longshoremen to raise their wages in their practically hereditary org, but striking for the whole working class, declassed workers, migrant workers. The defense of part of the working class is denounced by these protests. “They hate us even though we don’t strike against DHS forces!” They take no action against DHS kidnapping despite already being aggressed upon. Coast is clear. Nothing but blue no matter who in sight. Another generation of Free Speech Zone protests to be forgotten and repeated.
I guess I just feel apathetic towards protests now. These ones don’t seem unified enough to do cool shit like pulling down racist statues during the george floyd protests. But even then, that spirit just seems to die out so quickly, and people act like attending the protest itself was the one political action they had to do before being absolved of having to think about the disenfranchised anymore.
They call it a “No Kings” protest, and yet the agenda does not involve burning down a Burger King or a King Sooper’s, or even having tiny guillotines in Central Park with which to summarily execute King’s Hawaiian sweet rolls en masse, Jacobin-style. Curious
I think that’s possible but it’s not necessarily the case. People could be joining these and learning about local groups they can join that help immigrants, trans people, or anyone else who’s in direct danger right now. I think it’s better to learn about them IRL than via social media.
To counter, they’re going to do real bad shit and invent bullshit no matter if everyone stayed home, turned off their phones and hid under their blankets.
Anyway its a way to talk to people, learn about how they see things, and agitate. It won’t change things of itself immediately, but as conditions worsen the little talks, the insignificant things seen, you’ll be surprised what sticks. Immediate gratification and feedback shouldn’t come to play when dealing with restructuring social-economics. If you have the opportunity to go, then go.
Oh trust me I know that one, haha. Aside from the boring standard bigotry and typical bourgeois so-called morality when they air their grievances it opens lines of agitation that are more location relevant and specific, and perhaps even things you could aid with as just some random.
I went to the first one and someone scolded at me “don’t get violent, hate doesn’t beat hate” when I was trying to start a fuck donald trump chant. There was people with the chud snake flag, and the people couldn’t hold a proper chant together so I was doing like 75% of the starting of call and response chants. A complete joke. Wasn’t even any cops there to despite there being over 1000 people at the one I was at, which shows you how little they are concerned at.
curious what folks’ opinions are of these protests. I have family that is apparently going to attend one of them tomorrow. I really don’t see the point considering protests don’t change anything and the potential for shit to get ugly is high.
I think it would be good to attend these protests with an org and try to recruit people.
Yeah
is doing this. I got an email from them, they’re going to be at the protest local to me tomorrow.
I think it’s good when people who usually don’t protest go out on the streets. A lot of those people are willing to learn but even more are very stubborn in their liberal beliefs. In general it’s a good opportunity for more radical groups to reach out to a large part of the general public and teach them some things about follow up steps after the protest. It takes a lot of patience and emotional labour but it can be very fruitful.
While I do not disagree with more pessimistic takes elsewhere in this thread, I think you hit on something important. And to add, liberals who think their free speech is protected and insist on Peaceful! Protest! can get a very rapid political education when their Hands Up, Don’t Shoot! gesture gets them gassed and shot with less-lethals and charged by a hog phalanx just as readily as the protestors who weren’t doing things the approved way.
The doctrine is stupid. “Get 3.5% of the population in the streets and the reigme will fall… somehow?”
But I’m generally pro any mass civic disruption, even if it ain’t going to do much now. tbh the feds could go full
and beat the shit out of a bunch liberals and radicalize them to do something more useful next time.
Do they want it to fall, or just go back to being they’re using the powers they have to fuck us over not abuse power to fuck us over
They don’t just do nothing, they’re a protest against the very idea of solidarity against ICE, which would involve standing up for each other.
hadn’t thought of it that way but yeah that’s shitty
Maybe it’s that I’m tired or maybe I haven’t paid enough attention, but could you explain this for me?
Solidarity is when you defend one another, not just post nice things about each other and pass around the same $20. The actual organization of these protests makes a point that they’re exposing hypocrisy by being utterly defenseless. Thereby exposing the moral repugnance of their attackers. You’ve heard this Gandhi garbage before surely
Yeah, these are all critiques i’ve had of these protests, I just never thought of them as supporting ICE. When you put it in the context of false solidarity or lacking solidarity, that makes sense.
Thank you!
I’m glad MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml gets it now but I still don’t know if I fully understand. you’re saying that because these protests are insisting on being all peaceful and not threatening that means they are just showing our enemies the powerful bourgeoisie that the people have no teeth. right? but how does that mean they are against solidarity? because the protests are peaceful that means the people participating in them are not willing to stand up with force against ICE? how would you say that the the protests should be conducted?
I’m not arguing, I really don’t know what my position is on the protests being a good thing or a bad thing.
You guys, I’m not gonna flip out, you don’t have to apologize for asking clarifying questions after the incoherent diatribes where I try condense too much into a few sentences, or reassure me we are not fighting, most of the people on this app instantaneously call me tankie Hitler, we are all gazpacho. We are all gucci… I don’t know why Meow said that, I don’t put anything particularly well. I am just astonished certain points are not already raised.
I think my acquaintance Mischa on the garbage takes app put it well: the liberal nonviolence playbook is all about giving up your leverage, it sn’t improved by mixing in guns or disorganized violence, because that just adds risk to symbolic actions.
Effective action like striking requires far more concerted organization than “show up to this parade to state your grievances and be ignored while we show off the headcount and advertise the democratic party”. Striking not just like the longshoremen to raise their wages in their practically hereditary org, but striking for the whole working class, declassed workers, migrant workers. The defense of part of the working class is denounced by these protests. “They hate us even though we don’t strike against DHS forces!” They take no action against DHS kidnapping despite already being aggressed upon. Coast is clear. Nothing but blue no matter who in sight. Another generation of Free Speech Zone protests to be forgotten and repeated.
I guess I just feel apathetic towards protests now. These ones don’t seem unified enough to do cool shit like pulling down racist statues during the george floyd protests. But even then, that spirit just seems to die out so quickly, and people act like attending the protest itself was the one political action they had to do before being absolved of having to think about the disenfranchised anymore.
love to waste time talking to smug white settlers who are clutching American flags and whining about “saving our dEmOcRaCy”
Much better to waste time talking to smug white settlers on the internet about how nothing ever happens and everything is pointless.
no thanks I don’t care for reddit
They call it a “No Kings” protest, and yet the agenda does not involve burning down a Burger King or a King Sooper’s, or even having tiny guillotines in Central Park with which to summarily execute King’s Hawaiian sweet rolls en masse, Jacobin-style. Curious
Same, and they’ve never protested anything prior to this. It’s very strange that they decide to do the bare minimum way too late.
I just try to convince them to leave their phones at home and cover their faces.
like most things that look like “progressive activism”, it’s just a purge valve to vent useful revolutionary energy so pressure doesn’t build
I think that’s possible but it’s not necessarily the case. People could be joining these and learning about local groups they can join that help immigrants, trans people, or anyone else who’s in direct danger right now. I think it’s better to learn about them IRL than via social media.
deleted by creator
To counter, they’re going to do real bad shit and invent bullshit no matter if everyone stayed home, turned off their phones and hid under their blankets.
Anyway its a way to talk to people, learn about how they see things, and agitate. It won’t change things of itself immediately, but as conditions worsen the little talks, the insignificant things seen, you’ll be surprised what sticks. Immediate gratification and feedback shouldn’t come to play when dealing with restructuring social-economics. If you have the opportunity to go, then go.
spoiler: it’s racist
Oh trust me I know that one, haha. Aside from the boring standard bigotry and typical bourgeois so-called morality when they air their grievances it opens lines of agitation that are more location relevant and specific, and perhaps even things you could aid with as just some random.
They are a crucial point of radicalization and you are all infantile left wing communists if you are able to go and choose not to.
I went to the first one and someone scolded at me “don’t get violent, hate doesn’t beat hate” when I was trying to start a fuck donald trump chant. There was people with the chud snake flag, and the people couldn’t hold a proper chant together so I was doing like 75% of the starting of call and response chants. A complete joke. Wasn’t even any cops there to despite there being over 1000 people at the one I was at, which shows you how little they are concerned at.