• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    9 hours ago

    They are, though. China is a democratic country, and public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Polling shows genuine democracy:

    What would worker control have to look like for you to accept it?

      • 🇵🇸antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml
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        5 hours ago

        Compared to the robust system of democracy in the US where corporations buy elections and the average person never gets to see a single policy enacted that benefits them? Is that what you’re comparing China to?

        • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          No lol. I mean, inarguably the us is more free by and large than china (usually, I’m talking normal timeline USA) but neither is a democracy.

          • 🇵🇸antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml
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            3 hours ago

            You’re just talking out your ass here lmao. This is objectively not true.

            China has better infrastructure. Better education. Better affordable healthcare (and they are rapidly about to eclipse the US in our capabilities). 90+% of Chinese people own their own homes. China is one of the safest countries in the world.

            What freedom are you talking about? The freedom to die on the streets from preventable illness? The freedom to work 40+hrs a week and live out of your car because you are priced out of housing? The freedom to get shot at the grocery store because someone with a gun is having a mental episode? The freedom to get brutalized by an unaccountable police force?

            What freedoms are you talking about?

            • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
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              3 hours ago

              Oh yes, the 40 hour work week, what a nightmare, china has it much better.

              No brutal police either that’s for sure, I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH YOU COMRADE, BECAUSE TO DO OTHERWISE WOULD BE UNPATRIOTIC.

              I guess at this point I need to just conclude you’re a tankie or a bot and stop wasting my time

              • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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                2 hours ago

                I’M GOING TO PULL SHIT OUT OF MY ASS BUT I’M GONNA REALLLLY SELL IT BECAUSE I DON’T ACTUALLY HAVE ANYTHING IN THE REAL WORLD TO POINT AT SO I NEED PEOPLE TO RESPOND TO MY ACTING INCREDULOUS ON A SOCIAL LEVEL

              • athatet@lemmy.zip
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                29 minutes ago

                Hey this is nothing. Like, what are you talking about? Why can’t you give a coherent answer.

                CHINA BAD is not an answer. It’s okay if you don’t know something but stop screaming nonsense.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            3 hours ago

            The US is only more free for capital owners, for the working class China is far more free. The US Empire already is on “normal timeline US Empire.”

      • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.ml
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        6 hours ago

        You can’t possibly think China is a democracy for real?

        yes we can, because we have actually studied the political structure of china

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        8 hours ago

        The PRC isn’t a western liberal faux-democracy, no, but it is a comprehensive unitary socialist democracy. Policy is usually pushed from the bottom-up, and there is comprehensive levels of provincial, regional, and national democracy. They abolished term limits for the presidential position, but that doesn’t mean “president for life,” Xi can be taken down democratically. It’s unlikely, though, considering he enjoys over 90% support.

        As for being “authoritarian,” all states are. The difference with China is that the working class is in control of the state, rather than the capitalist class like in western countries.

        • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          I can’t tell if you honestly believe the Chinese working class are in control of china. If so, bravo I guess. No point discussing much else

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            3 hours ago

            I do, because it’s true, but I don’t see why that means there isn’t a point in discussing. Public ownership is the principle aspect of society, and capitalists are regularly punished for stepping out of line, while the working class has comprehensive democratic structures in place to pass the policies they want.

              • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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                3 hours ago

                Why do you liberal trolls just vague-post when you don’t know what you’re talking about?

                You’re not impressing anyone, and you would do better to actually read.

                • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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                  3 hours ago

                  the users of .world passed around curated lists of “tankie trolls” to newbies so that they can be blocked before ever interacting with them; how about doing something like this for lib trolls?

                  • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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                    2 hours ago

                    Nah, let the stormfront / kiwifarms people distribute lists of targets / witches they feel need burning.

                    That’s not our role as communists. In the words of Omar Mukhtar - “They are not our teachers”

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                6 hours ago

                If you have something to say, then I invite you to, otherwise it seems more like you don’t and can’t, and instead resort to insult to cover for that. It’s just standard ad hominem.

                • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
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                  3 hours ago

                  If we want to be formal about it, you’ve just asserted a bunch of no sense claims without evidence. Go ahead and show us concretely the control the Chinese working class have over their political system.

                  And maybe not with polls that include people under 24/7 surveillance by the party.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    3 hours ago

                    For the PRC, public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, and governs the large firms and key industries.

                    China's state-run industry

                    The working class is steadily advancing in material conditions, and as production develops it is increasingly planned. A bourgeois state would not allow capital to be so constrained and boxed in, and at the same time a state cannot be anything other than an extension of the ruling class. In China, this class has been the working class since the revolution, and it is backed up by the fact that the CPC is supported by over 90% of the population. This support is consistent even when western orgs gather the polling.

                    Perceptions of democracy index

                    The PRC certainly isn’t much farther than the primary stage of socialism, as they call it, but already aspects of the intermediate stage are appearing. Reality more closely aligns with the CPC’s stated goals and strategies than it does their critics, which is why most ML orgs back China and consider it socialist right now.

                    Cheng Enfu's stages of socialism diagram

                    People in China are under a similar level of surveilance as western countries, though unlike western countries this is mostly used against capitalists, so they cannot undermine the system.

                    None of my claims have been nonsense, the reverse is true.