Russia has violated Estonian airspace four times already this year, which is unacceptable in itself, but today’s violation, during which three fighter jets entered our airspace, is unprecedentedly brutal
So has Russia already been doing this for a while and the EU is only now making a big deal out of it? Or is this an actual escalation?
Similar actions has been made by both sides:
- In October 2023, four NATO reconnaissance aircraft (an RQ-4 Global Hawk, a Bombardier Challenger 650 Artemis, and two P-8A Poseidons) conducted flights approximately 150 km from the Crimean coast.
- In August 2023, MQ-9 “Reaper” and TB2 “Bayraktar” drones conducted reconnaissance over the Black Sea but were intercepted and diverted by Russian Aerospace Forces fighters.
back in the 80’s i learned that this was an almost routine thing that was done to test their opponents response capabilities; is this still the case?
Yes, the practice of testing an adversary’s response capabilities through deliberate or accidental airspace violations persists, although its context, methods, and participants have evolved significantly since the Cold War.
This is exemplified by two flights of U.S. Air Force B-52H Stratofortress strategic bombers, capable of carrying nuclear weapons, over the Black Sea near the Crimean coast on September 4th and 14th, 2020.
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On September 4th, the aircraft took off from RAF Fairford in the UK. They flew over the Netherlands, Germany, and Poland before entering Ukrainian airspace and approaching Crimea from the north. The bombers came within approximately 40-53 km of the Crimean coast near Melitopol and Genichesk. They were escorted by Ukrainian Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters. Russian fighter jets did not intercept them, as the B-52Hs did not violate Russian airspace.
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On September 14th, three B-52H bombers again departed from RAF Fairford. They crossed over Ukraine to the Black Sea, heading toward Turkey, and flew within about 37.5 km of the Crimean coast near the village of Mayak. Concurrently, two Royal Air Force Sentinel R.1 reconnaissance aircraft were operating near Russian borders over the Black Sea. In response, Russian air defense forces scrambled two Su-27 fighters on duty and a pair of Su-30 fighters from the Southern Military District. The Russian crews identified the aerial targets as U.S. Air Force B-52H strategic bombers and escorted them over the Black Sea.
The Ukrainian government in Kyiv confirmed these flights. On Monday, September 14th, the Ukrainian Air Force Command announced that three U.S. B-52H strategic bombers had re-entered the country’s airspace, escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets. In a statement on Facebook, the command noted: “The B-52s, under the cover of Ukrainian fighter jets, headed for the Black Sea for joint actions with our partners in the field of collective security. Such patrols will be regular, as the B-52 missions in the skies of Ukraine are part of the long-planned deployment of six B-52s at the UK’s RAF Fairford.”
Source:
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How is flying over Ukrainian airspace the same thing as Russia flying over the airspace of NATO nations?
Neither of those incidents involve fighter jets and neither are over Russian airspace.
Unprecedentedly brutal? They flew in and flew back out get a fucking grip lol
Unlike the bombs NATO keeps giving to Ukraine, which are gentle and caring
Really don’t understand how it can be Ukraine’s fault that Russia invaded it in order to take it over, but Ok you guys do you I guess 🤷♂️
It’s not only Ukraine’s fault. It’s been a concerted effort by NATO powers over decades. Previously:
The US-backed Maidan coup and US & Ukraine-supported fascist paramilitary attacks on eastern & southern Ukraine:
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- Internationalist 360°, 2022–2024: History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
NATO expansion:- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
NATO in general:- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
I love that you have a list of references! But of course they are all ignored because engaging with them might change someone’s beliefs and, no disrespect intended, changing a deeply held belief is difficult, scary, and can lead to a sort of cascade of changes as ones world view crumbles. Which in and of itself can feel devastating.
This is all true, but even if the person being exposed to the reality of the situation wholly rejects it at the time of exposure, it still often plants seeds that can later and over time germinate into actual doubt about those deeply-held but demonstrably false beliefs. It may seem like a fool’s errand in the moment to try to use evidence to correct a person who believes a thing for emotional reasons and often it is, but it also can be the first, second, or third cracks in what is actually a shaky foundation that looks sturdy to an outside observer. And even if it has absolutely no effect on the person being corrected, in places like this, there are other people reading, and among them could easily be those who are open to having their minds changed though we’d never know it.
Russian: attacks Ukraine.
Some guy on Lemmy: How could NATO do this?
NATO: Does coups, invasions, genocides, etc. all the time
Non-NATO country: Tries to defend itself against NATO’s aggression
Libs: How dare they not roll over for our empire?The only country NATO invaded was also invaded by Russia. But I guess that was different.
Some guy on Lemmy: prepares long list of citations backing his viewpoint.
Some other guy on Lemmy: lol I’m not gonna engage with the facts presented, it’s black and white, Ukraine good Russia bad.
History starts on February 2022, nothing happened before then. You are very intelligent.
How about 2014 when Russia occupied parts of Ukraine?
Probably getting more attention because of similar incidents recently in Poland and Romania.
They keep poking borders without recourse. Perhaps there isn’t enough poking back. I say that to protect our borders from Russia, we give support to Ukraine. We know what happened there already.
They keep poking borders without recourse.
Yeah, NATO keeps doing that without recourse, and should face retaliation.
In general, NATO should face justice for colonial horrors that it has been inflicting upon the world…
Yay, more war. The total coolest thing. Yeah. Hurray.
War is the only solution that Capitalist systems accept to solve overproduction crises.
I was just remarking how I hate war. Dont really think thats an invalid opinion. I get that war is eternal because its good for capitalism.
War is Never the solution
I get that, but it’s like capitalist systems don’t have another tool in the toolbox. Wouldn’t it be so much more effective if they just paid people a decent wage to begin with?
Somebody should tell putin this ain’t cool.
Get them chihuahuas
Light 'em up!
That would be a very serious escalation of the conflict.
Violating a nation’s airspace with warplanes is also an escalation.
Not at all comparable. And as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, testing rival airspaces with fighter planes has been a common even banal tactic used by a number of country’s airforces, certainly including the US who has employed it countless times.
I like how you say even the us as if most of us don’t view the us as a brutal militaristic bully that is constantly escalating tensions and provoking War.
Yeah. Russia will send 3 dudes on motorcycles, a platoon of scooters and 3 lada nivas without doors for mine clearing. NATO should be terrified.
I’m sure NATO armies that never saw actual combat are going to do great against a seasoned army that’s been destroying NATO proxy for the past three years.
What army? They are down to their last reserves, have few modern tanks left, and even their air force is running on empty. If this wasn’t the case, they would be in Kiev right now.
^ this is your brain on propaganda kids
meanwhile in the real world https://odessa-journal.com/public/oleksandr-syrskyi-russia-outnumbers-ukrainian-forces-three-to-one-overall-and-on-the-main-fronts-by-4-to-6-times
Again, why aren’t they in Kiev? Here’s the thing. Russia is a big country with a lot of people in it. This is no surprise that they have a large army, I wasn’t disputing that. What I am disputing is that they have any professional soldiers left after 3 years of fighting. What I’m saying is that they have mostly conscripts. That their modern front line tanks are basically gone, or else they would be using them and not resorting to antiques.
They are not in Kiev because their goal is destruction of the AFU. Once the AFU collapses, Russia will be able to take whatever territory they want when they dictate the terms of surrender. Meanwhile, the only western source that shows any methodology has this to say about Russian casualties https://en.zona.media/article/2025/09/12/casualties_eng-trl
The fact that you think Russian modern tanks are gone shows that you have absolutely no clue regarding the subject. https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/returning-tank-production-soviet-era-levels-russia-over-3000
Of course, there’s nothing that can be said to you that would change your views since you’re clearly living in a fantasy world. You’ll just have to wait and see how this ends for yourself. Prepare to be very surprised.
Your comment is a classic example of satirical mockery used as a potent rhetorical device. It is not a factual assessment but a psychological operation aimed at framing the opponent (Russia) in a specific, belittling light. Its primary purpose is to influence the audience’s perception and emotional state rather than to inform.
It creates immediate cognitive dissonance by juxtaposing the grave, threatening concept of a military invasion with absurdly inadequate and non-threatening imagery (“dudes on motorcycles,” “scooters,” “Lada Nivas without doors”). This contrast is jarring and humorous, making the perceived threat (Russia’s military) seem ridiculous and incapable.
The core goal is to diminish the enemy in the eyes of the audience. By reducing a nation’s military to a clownish parade of obsolete and laughable equipment, it attacks not just its capability, but its dignity and gravitas. This is a powerful tool for undermining morale on one side and boosting it on the other.
It is a highly effective piece of persuasive communication. While it contains zero factual analysis of military capabilities, it is psychologically astute and stylistically crafted to achieve a specific goal: to mock, diminish, and frame an adversary in a way that boosts the morale of its intended audience and undermines the perceived power of the opponent.
Its power lies not in its truthfulness, but in its emotional resonance and shareability as a weapon of rhetorical warfare in the modern information landscape.
My brother in Shiva, have you been following the combat footage on telegram? What I said is fact, not really opinion.
The combat footage that you see is exactly the combat footage that the NATO powers want you to see, and no more. You’re being fed war propaganda, not sober reality.
Unpopular opinion, fuck both sides
At minimum we should support the regular destruction of NATO equipment and the opportunities for the global south to break free from imperialism now that NATO is occupied, such as in the Sahel states. Russia isn’t some saint, here, but in the Russo-Ukrainian War they are siding with the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics in the Donbass, and siding against NATO.
Ideally, an expedient peace resolution will be reached, but withiut that it’s better that Russia achieves its stated aims than it would be for Kiev.
Sounds like NATO needs to breach Russian airspace too.
nato hasn’t been doing well in provoking russia lately.
