• GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    step 1. misinformation is a problem on every platform. full stop.

    I think what you mean is maliciously manufactured information. still, I believe Lemmy is subject to it.

    I believe that both types can be effectively dispatched by effectively moderating the community, but not in the sense that you might be thinking.

    I believe that we are looking at community moderation from the wrong direction. today, the goal of the mod is to prune and remove undesired content and users. this creates high overhead and operational costs. it also increases chances for corruption and community instability. look no further than Reddit and lemmy for this where we have a handful of mods that are in-charge of multiple communities. who put them there? how do you remove them should they no longer have the communities best interests in mind? what power do I have as a user to bring attention to corruption?

    I believe that if we flip the role of moderators to be instead guardians of what the community accepts instead of what they can see it greatly reduces the strain on mods and increases community involvement.

    we already use a mechanism of up/down vote. should content hit a threshold below community standards, it’s removed from view. should that user continue to receive below par results from inside the community, they are silenced. these par grades are rolling, so they would be able to interact within the community again after some time but continued abuse of the community could result in permanent silencing. should a user be unjustly silenced due to abuse, mod intervention is necessary. this would then flag the downvoters for abuse demerits and once a demerit threshold is hit, are silenced.

    notice I keep saying silenced instead of blocked? that’s because we shouldn’t block their access to content or the community or even let them know nobody is seeing their content. in the case of malicious users/bots. the more time wasted on screaming into a void the less time wasted on corrupting another community. in-fact, I propose we allow these silenced users to interact with each other where they can continue to toxify and abuse each other in a spiraling chain of abuse that eventually results in their permanent silencing. all the while, the community governs itself and the users hum along unaware of what’s going on in the background.

    IMO it’s up to the community to decide what is and isn’t acceptable and mods are simply users within that community and are mechanisms to ensure voting abuse is kept in check.

      • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        genuinely curious of how would they game it?

        of course there’s a way to game it, but I think it’s a far better solution than what social media platforms are doing currently and gives more options than figuratively amputate parts of community to save itself.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          If I need 10 downvotes to make you disappear then I only need 10 Smurf accounts.

          At the same time, 10 might be a large portion of some communities while miniscule in others.

          I suppose you limit votes to those in the specific community, but then you’d have to track their activity to see if they’re real or just griefing, and track activity in relation to others to see if they’re independent or all grief together. And moderators would need tools to not only discover but to manage briefing, to configure sensitivity

          • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            you’re right. the threshold is entirely dependent on the size of the community. it would probably be derived from some part of community subscribers and user interactions for the week/month.

            should a comment be overwhelmingly positive that would offset the threshold further.

            in regards to griefing, if a comment or post is overwhelmingly upvoted and hits the downvote threshold that’s when mods step in to investigate and make a decision. if it’s found to not break rules or is beneficial to the community all downvoters are issued a demerit. after so many demerits those users are silenced in the community and follow through typical “cool down” processes or are permanently silenced for continued abuse.

            the same could be done for the flip-side where comments are upvote skewed.

            in this way, the community content is curated by the community and nurtured by the mods.

            appeals could be implemented for users whom have been silenced and fell through the cracks, and further action could be taken against mods that routinely abuse or game the system by the admins.

            I think it would also be beneficial to remove the concept of usernames from content. they would still exist for administrative purposes and to identify problem users, but I think communities would benefit from the “double blind” test. there’s been plenty of times I have been downvoted just because of a previous interaction. also the same, I have upvoted because of a well known user or previous interaction with that user.

            it’s important to note this would change the psychological point of upvote and downvotes. currently they’re used in more of an “I agree with” or “I cannot accept that”. using the rules I’ve brought up would require users to understand they have just as much to risk for upvoting or downvoting content. so when a user casts their vote, they truly believe it’s in the interests of the community at large and they want that kind of content within the community. to downvote means they think the content doesn’t meet the criteria for the community. should users continue to arbitrarily upvote or downvote based on their personal preferences instead of community based objectivity, they might find themselves silenced from the community.

            it’s based on the principles of “what is good for society is good for me” and silences anyone in the community that doesn’t meet the standards of that community.

            for example, a community that is strictly for women wouldn’t need to block men. as soon as a man would self identify or share ideas that aren’t respondent to the community they would be silenced pretty quickly. some women might even be silenced but they would undoubtedly have shared ideas that were rejected by the community at large. this mimics the self-regulation that society has used for thousands of years IMO.

            I think we need to stop looking at social networks as platforms for the individuals and look at them as platforms for the community as a whole. that’s really the only way we can block toxicity and misinformation from our communities. undoubtedly it will create echo chambers

  • bsit@sopuli.xyz
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    3 months ago

    If we want to go the route of the Responsibility of the Individual: Resolve to not get your political etc. news from social media. Draw a line for yourself: cool to get gaming news from random influencers online? Probably. News about global events? At this point might be better for most people’s mental health to ignore them and focus more locally. However, read how to read a book, make your best effort at finding a reputable news organization and check those for news if you must have them. On same vein, if you don’t read at least some article about an event being discussed on social media, DON’T COMMENT. Don’t engage with that post. If it really grabs at you, go find an article about it from a trusted source, and depending on how much it animates you, try to get a bigger picture of the event. Assume that vast majority of ALL CONTENT online is currently incentivized to engage you - to capture your attention, which is actually the most valuable asset you have. Where you put your attention will define how you feel about your life. It’s highly advicable to put it where you feel love.

    Responsibility of the Collective: Moving in hierarchies, we can start demanding that social media moderators (or whatever passes for those in any given site) prevent misinformation as much as possible. Try to only join communities that have mods that do this. Failing that, demand social media platforms prevent misinformation. Failing that, we can demand the government does more to prevent misinformation. All of those solutions have significant issues, one of them being they are all very incentivized to capture the attenttion of as many people as possible. Doesn’t matter what the exact motivation is - it could be a geneinly good one. A news organization uses social media tactics to get the views so that their actually very factual and dilligently compiled articles get the spread. Or, they could be looking to drive their political agenda - which they necessarily do anyway because desire to be factual and as neutral as possible is a stance as well. One that may run afoul of the interests of some government that doesn’t value freedom of press - which is very dangerous and you need to think hard for yourself how you feel about the idea of the government limiting what kind of information you can access. For the purposes of making this shorter, you can regard massive social media platforms as virtual governments too. In fact, it would be a good idea in general.

    The thing with misinformation is that many people who talk about it subtly think that they are above it themselves. They’re thinking that they know they’re not subject to propaganda and manipulation but it’s the other poor fools that need to be protected from it. It’s the Qanon and Antivaxxers. But you know better, you know how to dig deeper into massively complicated global topics and find out what the true and right opinion about them is. You can’t. Not even if we weren’t in the middle of multiple fucking information wars. You’d do well to focus on what you can know for sure, in your own experience. If you don’t like the idea of individual responsibility though, because “most people aren’t going to do it” - your best bet at getting a collective response is a group of individuals coming together under the same ideal. It’ll happen sooner or later anyway and there’s going to be plenty of suffering before either way.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      we can start demanding that social media moderators (or whatever passes for those in any given site) prevent misinformation as much as possible.

      Yeah, but how are you expecting moderators to determine what is and isn’t misinformation?

      • bsit@sopuli.xyz
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        3 months ago

        That’s one of the many issues with expecting a collective resolution. Question is: why do people feel they need to be able to discuss issues way beyond their understanding and personal experience online with others who also don’t know much about it? If actually done well, moderation is a full time job but nobody is interested in paying a bunch of online jannies to clean their space.

        That’s why I favor individual responsibility, and opting out of the possibility of being exposed to (or perpetuating) misinformation. Maybe in the future we can have forums for verified experts of a field, where regular people can have discussions with them and ask questions etc. But these would be moderated places where you do need to bring proof and sound arguments, not emotionally charged headlines.

        The stories and information posted on social media are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted as fact.