I don’t get this, the only argument is the like Austrian school taxation is theft argument but in that case all the taxes that income tax haters like are also just as much theft.
You see a new article every week about why we need to get rid of income tax and replace it with some asinine “progressive consumption tax” that allows for poor people to write some stuff off but not other stuff its a mess.
every inane over complicated solution always runs into either not making enough, being to expensive to enforce and calculate or being regressive
even in Europe which comes the closest to this with the use of vats but income tax is still their main cash cow
this is a solution in search of a problem income tax works, economist agree when done right (as in you don’t raise income tax 50% in a day)it has the least distortion, it’s easy to collect and raises massive revenue
Your income is taxed in payroll taxes, income taxes(federal and sometimes state), and then you are taxed for buying things. That is bullshit.
Personal income shouldn’t be taxed unless you make substantially more than the cost of living. Anything over $10m should be taxed at 100% including capital gains and stock awards. If you need more motivation to succeed than $10m a year, you are a lazy parasite.
Where they need to actually tax is businesses. Tax the businesses based on profit and remove the loopholes that allow for tax avoidance abuse schemes that result in a state single digit tax percentage of profits. I would even go so far as to say that the federal taxes on businesses should only apply in interstate and international businesses and only states should be allowed to tax businesses that operate exclusively within the state’s borders.
The effects of that tax plan have obvious consequences and they are all beneficial to the people.
I don’t mind really, just wish it was used for more things that helped society. And it needs to be a little more progressive, though it is the most progressive of the taxes we have here.
My ex MIL, who literally used WIC and welfare when she was a single mom, and leveraged that into a nursing degree, rails against welfare now and doesn’t want her taxes going to that, doesn’t want to pay. Not even in a pull the ladder up after herself way, she just refuses to admit she benefited from it.
People are self centered, and don’t bother to take a deeper look at what is happening.
They get their paycheck and see that the gubment took 24% of their money and feel like they’ve been robbed.
At no point do they consider the years they spent in public school, or the roads they use to drive to work, or the ever present emergency services that will be available when they are needed.
Idk about you but if the government took 24% of my money I’d be ecstatic, currently it’s much closer to 55-60%, a too-big percentage of which goes on privatising profit and nationalising losses.
Or that those things should be paid entirely out of business and top 10% taxes because they can afford it. Apparently. 👆
Obviously I agree that the rich should pay more in taxes that is common sense, but the idea we could run an economy without taxing anyone deemed “middle class” is a fantasy.
People love the European welfare state, here is the thing European taxation is way less progressive people of all income brackets pay more in taxes, I am not saying that is wrong but the fact is most Americans would hate it.
In the nordics it is a cultural assumption that everyone pays, yes even poor people.
European income tax rates are way flatter with the top income level kicking in earlier.
but the idea we could run an economy without taxing anyone deemed “middle class” is a fantasy
No it isn’t, the US was like that. They taxed everyone to fund a war then put it back, then did it again but didn’t put it back because they keep the money and here we are.
Only 24 percent? What the fuck are they whining about?
Exactly
Trust me if the government had to make up the difference from consumption taxes most people would lose more money to that then income tax, since income tax is predictable it can be optimized better while consumption tax has inherent variance so you have to set it high to be safe.
I 100% realize why taxes are needed but they seem like too much for some and way way too little for others. I also have a big problem for the things my tax money would be spent to support right now.
Income tax doesn’t do anything to the 1%. You have unrealized gains, and borrow against your assets? You owe zero tax.
A wealth tax, or income tax on yet unrealized gains, would be better. Of course, that comes with its own set of issues. But, I don’t think they are insurmountable.
A thing many people don’t understand about American political discourse is that much of our anti-tax extremism is not really to do with taxes but rather a reaction to the Civil Rights movement. Overt racial animus became untenable in the 1970s so politicians looking to agitate white suburban voters began to use “Taxpayers” as a synonym for white people and “Wellfare recipients” to mean non-white people. From this perspective, the anti-tax agenda can be understood more as a white supremacist project than any objection to the concept of taxation. It’s about who gets what, not really about the how.
To be fair White people do contribute the most in tax revenue.
They also use the largest percentage of social assistance benefits.
Gragh kill mammoth. Tax makes Gragh have less mammoth. Gragh not sick, Gragh no need whichdoctor.
Because the government has all the fucking data it needs to just tell me how much I owe, but no they force me to calculate it myself every year. Or to pay an accountant because it’s a horrible mess of a form.
My main issue is with taxes in general. Well over half of my income (some sources suggest up to 70%) ends up being paid as some kind of tax.
No it doesn’t. Not a single person in the US has 70% of their income going towards taxes dude. You’re on crack throwing that random number out.
Congrats on the US defaultism! I’m not from the US, so stick your crack comment up your arse.
Being paid as some kind of tax isn’t income tax only, it’s also e.g. VAT.
I don’t hate it. I think it’s one of the better taxes.
People hate it because it feels like a bait-and-switch, the difference between salary and take-home pay. They also hate it because it comes with paperwork.
One thing I hate about it is like. Okay child support as an example. If you make 100, 000 a year before taxes they will just take out 17,000 for child support. But your take home would be significantly less. Making that 17% income steal feel more like 40%.
I hate how every single financial aid or housing or anything that requires an income to apply for always uses before tax gross income. If you want buy a house they use gross income.
If you take home shit money and you want federal or state assistance, “sorry for gross income you make too much to get any sort of financial aid. Not our fault landlords hike up rent. Just buy a house”
Ok but 17k for a kid is a bargain.
People will go to the library to Google about when trump will remove income and federal taxes screaming that it’s a waste of their money, not knowing that the library a federal building paid for by their taxes.
I don’t get it either. The US is down here on the lower end for how much we pay into taxes. We just get hardly any benefits from it since it all goes to our military. But on average we only pay a relatively small percentage compared to the rest of the world.
I’ll put my 2 cents in though. I’d gladly pay a higher tax percentage to save $800 a month for health insurance that doesn’t even work until I spend $7500 first.
Fucking deductibles. I just hit my $3500 on June 30th.
Our year reset on July 1st.
it does not all go to the military,
interest on debt is the highest expense but the second highest is social security followed by military
I hate social security personally the significant amount of the collectors have taken out more then they put in and I woudl prefer a more traditiona l welfare system
Conservatives like social security because it is welfare that pretends to be earned
Conservatives don’t like social security they want to get rid of it or cut it
Because big corporations tell us what we like and don’t like. People who can toss 90% of their income into stocks/investments etc… that can be used to make more money, would rather have as much as possible. Hence they preffer the costs to go onto when you are purchasing things. While poorer people obviously are spending most of their money on things.
In short it’s a way to keep taxes lower for people making a good amount of money, Especially makes things better for those who can invest and multiply their money.
In the US, it’s because it mainly goes to the bloated military budget instead of helpful social services, schools and infrastructure, and when we try to ask for those things, we are called greedy and lazy socialists.
The number one thing the US spends on besides interest on debt is social security
Also America spends more on education per student then most of the world. The USA spends 13k per student for K-12, higher then countries like Finland, The Republic of Korea and Japan yet these countries outperform America routinely.
Social security and education are not funded through income tax. Social security is its own withholding and schools are funded through property tax.
Income taxes (and also sales taxes, in most cases) disproportionately impact lower earners. Someone earning minimum wage likely devotes the majority of their income to cost of living essentials. Conversely, someone earning 10x minimum wage will spend a much lower percentage.
The exclusion level generally is set quite a bit below minimum wages, and the a progressive tax doesn’t always fix that, as cost of living/inflation can outpace legislation very quickly.
The other reason that it’s not entirely fair is that the wealthy don’t earn a salary. They earn dividends and do all kinds of things to avoid having an income. Someone who pulls down $1 million in salary either needs an accountant or earns an additional 10x compensation via stock grants, dividends, etc., which are (in most jurisdictions) taxed very differently than income. In the USA, for example, the top tax bracket (federal) for income is 37%, whereas a stock grant held for 1 year after vesting would be taxed at no more than 20% (and I’m grossly oversimplifying).
also low income earners get all their money back in tax returns, you hear this a lot but the bottom 40% of workers don’t pay anything in taxes
it is very progressive the highest income earners so like doctors and lawyers pay the most in income tax
it depends
Jurisdiction is key, of course.
The planet money podcast has had several episodes where this has come up. I think the last one about the resistance to free filing tools is a good one
Because I could pay privately for the services the government gives me, and it’d be cheaper and better.
Like US healthcare?
Nah, I don’t get that here in Brazil
