Honest question, maybe not the right forum, why do trans people worship/idolise the pink/white/blue flag and dance around it like rats for the piper? It doesn’t define them, it contains pink and blue, two colours that are explicitly used for boys and girls separately. Any explanations other than “you don’t get it?” and “so they can be marketed to separately”?
I can maybe explain - blue is traditionally a color that is associated with boys, pink is a color that is traditionally associated with girls, white is a full spectrum color that represents the gender diversity outside those two.
Obviously the idea isn’t to limit people to boxes but making a simple yet commonly understandable sign that represents something as complex as gender identity can be quite tricky so compromises tend to be made.
So then can I ask why did you think comparing trans people to rats led by a piped piper was the way to engage the community if your goal was to promote understanding and inclusivity?
So then can I ask why did you think comparing trans people to rats led by a piped piper was the way to engage the community if your goal was to promote understanding and inclusivity?
I didn’t compare trans people to rats - only likened their actions of those who dance around this flag. And can you think of a better analogy? Rats are pretty awesome and intelligent creatures by the way. Just because they got some bad publicity over the plague which may or may not have been fake news.
Why would people tell trans people “this is your flag” if not for commercial reasons?
I think the GLBTQ community is unfortunately being very exploited at the moment - with social media being the main driver - not all attention is good attention. I was even listening to Skin from Skunk Anansie say the same the other week (gay black singer) compared to the 90s.
Your words create images and those can be more powerful than the meaning you may or may not intend behind them - so a better analogy would have been something like moths to a flame, which both would fit better the concept of being drawn to something and would have avoided the likening of people with rats that are being led to drown in a river (and rats like trans people are pretty cool and don’t deserve to be killed en masse)
Why would people tell trans people “this is your flag” if not for commercial reasons?
I’d ask in return which people do you think are telling trans people that it’s their flag? The flag was created in the 90s by a trans person and then got picked up by other trans people since they liked it enough.
Still, are there massive issues with rainbow capitalism and the commercialization of everything? (like ikea and the blåhaj in this very post?) Absolutely. And yes in the current climate trans (and generally queer) visibility (as eg. Lily Alexander points out) can indeed be quite dangerous.
Does this mean we should reject any and all “solidarity” from them? I don’t think so, as in I’d much rather capitalists cater to queer folk (even if we know it’s all just bottom line thinking) than not consider us at all - while we collectively stay aware as to why they’re doing it (also as we’ve seen they make really good canaries for when fascists show up and all the pink washing gets bleached)
Also to me it does appear that it’s working - most trans folk I know are against this - sure you’ll still get some that will become brand enjoyers/defenders but you’ll also notice how Lemmy as a left-leaning vocally anti-capitalist space is teeming with LGBTQ people - those are not just coincidences.
So yeah we both agree that there is a pervasive undercurrent that is exploiting queer (and het) people - and had you come in good faith commenting how you think ikea is exploiting the meme and the community to make more money I doubt you’d have gotten the same reception - but the way you phrased it you made it seem like it’s trans people’s fault for being exploited - instead we should focus on capitalism as the root cause and how we come together for the liberation of everyone instead of infighting over whose flag is more commercialized.
Tbh, no analogy would be necessary, because the issue isn’t only the comparison to some animal (neither rat nor moth is a very nice animal to be compared to), but the issue is the direct meaning of the analogy:
Both the rats being led by the pied piper and the moths attracted to the flame are mindlessly attracted by something that will kill them.
Compare that to people rallying behind symbols to further a cause. That’s something entirely different. They rally voluntarily to that symbol. They unite to have strength in numbers to push the change they want to see.
And this is also in itself the answer: It’s not about the exact design of the flag (though it does have symbolism in it) but it’s about the meaning. You can convey a lot with just a few stripes of color if the meaning is well-known. If you had to spell out everything that is meant by waving that flag, it would have to be a small essay. Not exactly something you can just hang from a window or a flag pole.
But people can’t (shouldn’t?) be reduced to their chosen gender. That’s just, offensive. All people are super complicated and this was the idea behind the initial pride flag celebrating the many different colours of everyone. That’s the part I just don’t get. Other than for marketing, why have such a narrow meaningless flag?
I’m not trans, but I guess it says blue becomes pink or there’s no colour or pink becomes blue. I think you’re overthinking it. It’s too late to change it now anyway, it’s probably the second most recognised pride flag there is. No sense getting stressed over a few colours.
it’s probably the most recognised pride flag there is
It’s called marketing. The trans community is an easy and loyal market to financially exploit and manipulate. There I said it. I don’t like it, but that’s the way it currently is.
idk, my city has it’s own flag, and that’s not weird. There’s more trans people in the world than what live in my city, so I don’t see how it’s somehow more narrow and meaningless.
To be devil’s advocate, why not flags for paedophiles, for abusers, for homeless people, for abused women, for abused men, for family of victims of murderers, for any other group of people I could construct and market to? The quantity really is not important.
Yup. That’s standing out in your “contributions” to this thread. Whatever is nasty, whatever is offensive, whatever will upset trans people, you’re here to say it.
Why are you grouping all trans people together as if they’re some robot? Why do you think you are the spokesperson for trans people? Both offensive to a large community.
I don’t actually think it is. I’m not even linking trans people with paedos, so why get so worked up as if I did.
So one of those groups of people have a flag apparently, what about all the others if the point of those arguing for the flag is that a community needs a flag to identify it.
It isn’t. And this is a perfect example of how your emotions have been shaped by media. Please take a step back from social media and smell the flowers.
You do realize the tone of your question comes off as intentionally aggressive and inflammatory, right? It’s akin to saying “so why do you beat your wife/children/significant other?” to people you don’t know.
I’m black (well, a mutt) and I hate the systematic abuses done to any minority or anyone at all really, but I don’t have any black lives matter flags, decals, etc despite my agreement with the movement. It’s kinda disingenuous to ascribe something you’ve seen a few do to a whole group or movement.
Honest question, maybe not the right forum, why do trans people worship/idolise the pink/white/blue flag and dance around it like rats for the piper? It doesn’t define them, it contains pink and blue, two colours that are explicitly used for boys and girls separately. Any explanations other than “you don’t get it?” and “so they can be marketed to separately”?
Based on all your fighting with the responses you aren’t asking honest questions here
I can maybe explain - blue is traditionally a color that is associated with boys, pink is a color that is traditionally associated with girls, white is a full spectrum color that represents the gender diversity outside those two.
Obviously the idea isn’t to limit people to boxes but making a simple yet commonly understandable sign that represents something as complex as gender identity can be quite tricky so compromises tend to be made.
Also, weren’t you the person that said:
So then can I ask why did you think comparing trans people to rats led by a piped piper was the way to engage the community if your goal was to promote understanding and inclusivity?
I didn’t compare trans people to rats - only likened their actions of those who dance around this flag. And can you think of a better analogy? Rats are pretty awesome and intelligent creatures by the way. Just because they got some bad publicity over the plague which may or may not have been fake news.
Why would people tell trans people “this is your flag” if not for commercial reasons?
I think the GLBTQ community is unfortunately being very exploited at the moment - with social media being the main driver - not all attention is good attention. I was even listening to Skin from Skunk Anansie say the same the other week (gay black singer) compared to the 90s.
Your words create images and those can be more powerful than the meaning you may or may not intend behind them - so a better analogy would have been something like moths to a flame, which both would fit better the concept of being drawn to something and would have avoided the likening of people with rats that are being led to drown in a river (and rats like trans people are pretty cool and don’t deserve to be killed en masse)
I’d ask in return which people do you think are telling trans people that it’s their flag? The flag was created in the 90s by a trans person and then got picked up by other trans people since they liked it enough.
Still, are there massive issues with rainbow capitalism and the commercialization of everything? (like ikea and the blåhaj in this very post?) Absolutely. And yes in the current climate trans (and generally queer) visibility (as eg. Lily Alexander points out) can indeed be quite dangerous.
Does this mean we should reject any and all “solidarity” from them? I don’t think so, as in I’d much rather capitalists cater to queer folk (even if we know it’s all just bottom line thinking) than not consider us at all - while we collectively stay aware as to why they’re doing it (also as we’ve seen they make really good canaries for when fascists show up and all the pink washing gets bleached)
Also to me it does appear that it’s working - most trans folk I know are against this - sure you’ll still get some that will become brand enjoyers/defenders but you’ll also notice how Lemmy as a left-leaning vocally anti-capitalist space is teeming with LGBTQ people - those are not just coincidences.
So yeah we both agree that there is a pervasive undercurrent that is exploiting queer (and het) people - and had you come in good faith commenting how you think ikea is exploiting the meme and the community to make more money I doubt you’d have gotten the same reception - but the way you phrased it you made it seem like it’s trans people’s fault for being exploited - instead we should focus on capitalism as the root cause and how we come together for the liberation of everyone instead of infighting over whose flag is more commercialized.
Tbh, no analogy would be necessary, because the issue isn’t only the comparison to some animal (neither rat nor moth is a very nice animal to be compared to), but the issue is the direct meaning of the analogy:
Both the rats being led by the pied piper and the moths attracted to the flame are mindlessly attracted by something that will kill them.
Compare that to people rallying behind symbols to further a cause. That’s something entirely different. They rally voluntarily to that symbol. They unite to have strength in numbers to push the change they want to see.
And this is also in itself the answer: It’s not about the exact design of the flag (though it does have symbolism in it) but it’s about the meaning. You can convey a lot with just a few stripes of color if the meaning is well-known. If you had to spell out everything that is meant by waving that flag, it would have to be a small essay. Not exactly something you can just hang from a window or a flag pole.
You did, and trying to hide behind allusion or allegory makes you seem like an idiot bigot instead of just a bigot
I mean, like any pride flag, it’s a symbol that is used to represent them. People like feeling represented, simple as.
But people can’t (shouldn’t?) be reduced to their chosen gender. That’s just, offensive. All people are super complicated and this was the idea behind the initial pride flag celebrating the many different colours of everyone. That’s the part I just don’t get. Other than for marketing, why have such a narrow meaningless flag?
Why don’t you go ask literally everyone about their country’s flag instead of coming to trans people and calling our flag narrow and meaningless?
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I’m not trans, but I guess it says blue becomes pink or there’s no colour or pink becomes blue. I think you’re overthinking it. It’s too late to change it now anyway, it’s probably the second most recognised pride flag there is. No sense getting stressed over a few colours.
It’s called marketing. The trans community is an easy and loyal market to financially exploit and manipulate. There I said it. I don’t like it, but that’s the way it currently is.
For flags or plushies? I don’t get why this all makes you object so hard. You seem like you came here to be cross and it’s working.
Because a country’s flag is meaningless nowadays?
So is a pride flag
idk, my city has it’s own flag, and that’s not weird. There’s more trans people in the world than what live in my city, so I don’t see how it’s somehow more narrow and meaningless.
To be devil’s advocate, why not flags for paedophiles, for abusers, for homeless people, for abused women, for abused men, for family of victims of murderers, for any other group of people I could construct and market to? The quantity really is not important.
Yup. That’s standing out in your “contributions” to this thread. Whatever is nasty, whatever is offensive, whatever will upset trans people, you’re here to say it.
Why are you grouping all trans people together as if they’re some robot? Why do you think you are the spokesperson for trans people? Both offensive to a large community.
Just shut the fuck up
Loving the projection here.
It seems like you are trolling but here is a bit more feed for the troll then
Actually pedophiles have a flag I don’t know if they identify with it a lot and frankly i don’t care but as digusting as it is It exists
Also asking why do trans people like this flag and them saying what about paedos even as “the devils advocate” is a fucked up thing to ask
Don’t bother responding this is all the feed you will get from me
I don’t actually think it is. I’m not even linking trans people with paedos, so why get so worked up as if I did.
So one of those groups of people have a flag apparently, what about all the others if the point of those arguing for the flag is that a community needs a flag to identify it.
If quantity isn’t important, why bring it up in the first place?
Also, wow, asking ‘if we have trans flags, why not pedo flags’ is super classy. Good job.
Don’t paraphrase to suit your own agenda.
As if you didn’t realise that bringing up pedophilia in a thread about trans people wasn’t incendiary and grossly offensive
It isn’t. And this is a perfect example of how your emotions have been shaped by media. Please take a step back from social media and smell the flowers.
You do realize the tone of your question comes off as intentionally aggressive and inflammatory, right? It’s akin to saying “so why do you beat your wife/children/significant other?” to people you don’t know.
I’m black (well, a mutt) and I hate the systematic abuses done to any minority or anyone at all really, but I don’t have any black lives matter flags, decals, etc despite my agreement with the movement. It’s kinda disingenuous to ascribe something you’ve seen a few do to a whole group or movement.
Americans worship/idolize/dance around a flag containing union jack colours like donkeys.
Looks cute. I would assume.
Narrator Voice: “It was not an honest question”
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Its not even the best gender identity flag. There are some that look so much better