Currently downvotes are enabled on a trial basis, this was done by me to see if they can be enabled to prevent spam from rising to the top of communities, along with the fact that is another form of interaction/feedback.
However I’ve gotten some pushback for this and so I’d like to see the general consensus of this decision. Please put any comments/concerns in this thread, and please vote here: https://forms.gle/zqDxemJCiTAXJi5i9
the results of this poll and the comments will determine if we keep or remove downvotes again
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Currently downvotes are enabled on a trial basis, this was done by me to see if they can be enabled to prevent spam
There’s a bunch of spam from a user called “BravoIsabella” that has positive upvotes, and a grumpy post from one of the AI communities saying “mystery downvoter show yourself”.
I’m 50/50 on this, so I’ll not vote, but I want to at least share my thoughts.
On one hand I generally like downvotes, because it makes it easier to identify bad actors & trolls. However, on an instance that’s all about nudity and sex, it could become a tool for harassment towards original content creators, which could discourage them from actually participating here. And I think OC is something we’d generally like to see more of, right? Or if we go with people who may be not quite the model standard body type, or do content that may not be the most vanilla kink out there, then they may be discouraged simply by people being not a fan of it, and it being very visible to them. It’s one thing to not get many upvotes, another to receive a lot of downvotes.
If this was a regular instance I’d easily vote for the downvotes, but here I’m rather leaning towards “nay”.
Ditto
Thank you for involving the community in the decision :D I generally like downvotes because it allows scrolling top posts to see the most generally liked content. It’s still easy to view New posts to see things without being affected by downvotes, like looking at a niche topic.
No downvotes. This is a porn instance. Users will downvote OC that isn’t classically attractive, gay content, etc. I’ll do that because I’m a jerk. But it discourages what few posts we get.
Spammers should be banned and or users should block.
Yes I like having downvotes. I use downvotes to notice trends of spam so I can better identify who to report/block.
That site sabotages the back button, fyi.
ALSO the downvote disabling feature never worked as intended. It only blocks lemmynsfw accounts from downvoting anything, lemmynsfw or otherwise. THIS account could already downvote anything federated.
the downvote disabling feature never worked as intended. It only blocks lemmynsfw accounts from downvoting anything, lemmynsfw or otherwise. THIS account could already downvote anything federated
Sure but those of us on lemmynsfw can’t see them.
Ok. I generally like being able to see things.
You could downvote from another account but it wouldn’t be federated and tallied for anything but your home instance.
Definitely enable; e.g.: lets say based on my sorting algorithm and frequency of frontpage visits, I usually see posts with ~20 upvotes (sounds like a weird oversimplification but that is kind of the case for me foe some reason)
For those 20 upvotes there might be 500 more people that believe that a post is very low quality, inappropriate for the community’s topic, etc., but I still see it, since, well its score was ~20.
Without upvotes it was very frequent that I saw a post that was not (or was very-very slightly) related to the community’s theme, and there is absolutely no other way for the community to filter it out. It forces me (everyone) to scroll across much irrelevant content, until maybe I give up and unsubscribe from some communities altogether, instead of helping to curate them into something people enjoy visiting.
The only other solution to this problem is to have moderators check every post that is uploaded, and, besides putting more strain to moderators, one moderator’s decision might even be debatable sometimes (e.g. a post might technically fit in a community, but the people who visit it might not find it enjoyable, or will just prefer to see it in a more appropriate community).
Downvotes provide a simple solution that involves many opinions in this whole process.
The only case that not having downvotes might make sense, is “Top”, in which I feel I only see posts with an insane number of upvotes (that I btw might not enjoy seeing) and nothing else. I also feel that this sorting algorithm also promotes the visibility of more generic content that a larger variety of people will enjoy, and will just upvote without considering the community it was posted in etc. But in those cases, the posts with many upvotes, can only get more upvotes (promoting the phenomenon), whereas with the ability to downvote, the final score will be more balanced, or at least leave the choice to the user (maybe indirectly via the choice sorting algorithm, or their client’s settings), for if they want to see controversial posts.
I created this account solely for, uhm, research purposes but I’m using it as my only account now. Partly because my other instance had some persisting issues for a few weeks and partly because I realized the missing downvoting really helped me chill and stop looking at/for karma. Not that I’m here to collect points, but my primitive monkey brain found a source of cheap reward and enjoyed it. I’m not really into downvotes, but I’m fine with both if others care for it.
I really don’t think anything has fundamentally changed with the community or platform since the decision to remove downvotes in the first place. I just don’t think the population of Lemmy as a whole is large enough or mature enough to use them in a responsible manner and it will continue to be used as a “this isn’t my fetish” button rather than any indication of quality or community relevance just like before.
I agree that the spam problem has gotten worse over time, but I really don’t see downvotes doing very much to fix that. Most of it is from content sellers. They only need one post to do well to get their visibility and they almost always get at least that much so they still end up rewarded for the behavior in the end.
Agreed with this. Lemmy is too low volume to need them.
Id say enable it. There is no complex algorithm that promotes content based on up and down votes like with sites like YouTube. If people want niche stuff that performs poorly on All > Top, they can see it on the niche sub for that content in their subscriptions or directly on the sub page. Having a low score doesnt delete posts.
I voted for : “I don’t care”
Downvotes have some advantages over blocking. They:
- Indicate trends of spam (as @morphballganon@mtgzone.com pointed out).
- Allows minimizing exposure to unwanted content from a given account without blocking out exposure to all that account’s content. (Accounts may post a mix of content I do and don’t like. Blocking throws out the baby with the bathwater.)
- Help disambiguate the popularity of content vs. reach of content. (Relatively few upvotes compared to other posts could be due to community obscurity, or posting at a poor time of day. It doesn’t indicate whether the community likes the post, or how you should adjust your posting habits to increase appeal. Counting downvotes helps you understand how many total people viewed a post, and the percentage of those who appreciated it.)
- Are lower friction. (They take fewer clicks.)
No downvotes. People use it as a “this isn’t my fetish” button and everything even slightly niche gets sent to oblivion. Especially bad for gonewild posts where people’s self image gets involved.
Also using a Google doc for this poll seems like a bad idea since people who aren’t from this instance can vote
You are using “some people misuse a thing” as a rationale to get rid of the thing.
If someone posts fetish x on a vanilla community, they should get downvoted. If they post that same thing in a community about fetish x, then the community can simply be blocked by those so inclined.
This is the important part:
Especially bad for gonewild posts where people’s self image gets involved.
We don’t need a “go away, you’re ugly” button. That’s what blocking is for.
Hm… what if downvoting was weighted only 1/10th as much as upvoting? So a few downvotes here and there from people doing it wrong wouldn’t amount to anything in others’ view, but if a post is heavily downvoted due to being in the wrong community or low effort, that’s visible?
Maybe? I dunno. Turning off downvotes seems like a pretty simple solution. Trying to come up with complex ways to make it hurt just the right amount doesn’t seem like it’ll work in all cases.
It’s called fine-tuning, and if everyone gave up that easily, many domains would suffer, like medicine, architecture, manufacturing design etc. Don’t be afraid of something simply because the ideal fix is more complicated than 2+2.
If they post that same thing in a community about fetish x, then the community can simply be blocked by those so inclined.
The problem is the majority of people don’t actually do that. They just downvote it to oblivion. That’s a significant part of why they were turned off in the first place.
by that same logic a use that sees content they don’t like on a community they do can block that user.
is there a problem with content being posted that doesn’t match communities right now? i haven’t noticed one. the biggest problem on this platform right now is lack of content. downvotes, or any tool for creating explicit negative social interaction or feedback can make a community more hostile and less inviting. right now i generally see almost no posts on any nsfw communities that should get downvotes that don’t just get taken care of by a moderator. right now we need to draw people in to posting content way way more than we need better tools to organize it.
the biggest problem on this platform right now is lack of content. downvotes, or any tool for creating explicit negative social interaction or feedback can make a community more hostile and less inviting.
Exactly this. We don’t have enough content to give users the tools to discourage posting.
Believing that fetishes should be separated in their own corners and downvoted otherwise is an excellent reason to not have downvotes - or to just not post content in this instance anymore
Separating things into their own corner is literally the point of subs.
Unless a community explicitly has a rule excluding content, and the uploads are valid there, downvoting something just because you’re not into it just seems like entitlement to me. Its the same “reasoning” people use to get gay content outside of Rule34 or other general boards, because they find it “icky” (of course none of these people complain about lesbian content)
Having to enumerate every single rule on a sub would be horrific and more importantly preference can’t be written into rules. What a community likes and doesnt like is based on the voting system, thats the fundamental point of Lemmy and reddit.
Thinking you can post whatever you want and expect all the exposure without regards to a communities tastes just because it doesnt explicitly violate rules is entitlement.
Seems like the divide is between people who actually contribute to this instance and post content, versus those who don’t and want to decide what get seen or not. Question, when we are gone, are you going to start posting? Will you create and moderate communities? Or are you going to keep sitting and expecting poster to cater to your tastes?
Its pretty rich to sit on your ass, makes demands and still call others entitled.
I posted when this instance first started and there was nearly nothing. So yeah I would and did. I didnt complain about the down votes and wasnt demanding up votes either.
I’m entitled to nothing, posts or votes. You are entitled to nothing as well.
I personally believe downvotes can be of use, but that would require a much, much larger userbase than what Lemmy - as a whole, and also LemmyNSFW - has. Maybe the biggest stances could afford to have downvotes (though from what I’m aware, plenty of them don’t) but in NSFW I could easily see a few people with bad intentions deciding what gets or doesn’t get seen in smaller communities.
The average activity in non-niche communities of NSFW is also much smaller than their Reddit counterparts, plus the fact that - from my experience - there’s quite a few mods missing, inactive for several months to +1 year, and I’m not sure what one would do in case of brigading.
Unfortunately you can’t really stimulate people to comment, which really would’ve been a boon to uploaders
when it comes to harassment or brigaiding please report it to me and I’ll take care of it, if mods for a community are inactive
I don’t see much reason to have them. Others have spoken of helping with spam. I haven’t noticed any spam on this instance.
You haven’t seen the new posters that suddenly show up, drop the same 2 pics in about 40 different places, then never post again?
Oh sure but I wouldn’t have considered that spam I guess.
I don’t like downvotes. I post stuff here, if it gets downvoted it can fail and go below the level of visibility that garners it more votes. People will downvote for any reason that comes into their heads. It’s almost like random noise but it messes with my post’s path to its intended audience.
I don’t see what possible motivation I would have to keep posting when that is happening.
You aren’t entitled to exposure. Voting the good up and the less good down is the fundamental basis of sites like Lemmy and Reddit. As a content creator/poster it of course hurts when your stuff isnt enjoyed by the community, but its the decision of the users what gets big and what doesnt.
We can’t afford to shit on the few posters we have.
Radovic is prolific - they post a tonne of content. If they are saying they don’t like the change, listen.
No, it’s you who aren’t entitled to content.
If I have to make an effort to do something it has to be rewarded. Else why do it?
You don’t wake up in the morning and whack yourself in the face with a teaspoon, do you? It wouldn’t happen because there would be no reward in it. Except for that one person in 100,000.
So without me, and people like me*, you ain’t up or downvoting anything because no on is posting.
*Unless you want to leave the posting to the bots…
Lol I’m sorry but you’re are entitled to nothing when posting. If people like it, great you get upvotes. No one is entitled to those votes though. If you were, then they’d be meaningless (or at least more meaningless haha)
Well I’m not going to post anything, so you’re not going to decide whether it gets exposure or not. So that’s that sorted.
Up to you.
