You’re right, but also They get alot more from the deal than you acknowledge. The service has never been free. They already had a profitable model, and now they want even more. I call it evil, but in a sense it’s standard corporate behaviour.

The two approaches you mention need not be mutually exclusive. I ditched google services more than 10 years ago, while loving somewhere they did some truly despicable antidemocratic things. but so what? They’re a corporation. There are political lobby groups, privacy foundations and advocacy groups you can contribute to. Despite being respectfully evangelical with those around me, most other than a fringe really don’t care enough about this. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop. I will still suggest alternatives. They’re my principles. you’re working in their interest if you tell your allies to give up. I understand and share the cynicism around political process especially in democratic nations with disappointing levels of corporate influence over legislation, we can only engage in it best we can, as well as exerting our rights as consumers. The critical mass required may seem insurmountable but negativity toward those effectively on your side is not going to help either.

To a degree perhaps. It has also monopolised industries that feed into each other. Even if you choose not to use their consumer products, you are being used by them as the product in these industries if you use the web at all, which is most of their business model. That isn’t consumer choice. Political intervention is one hope, which in some countries I guess there is some consumer power over, if consumers were to collectivise to a degree more valuable than the lobbying power of this monster. The internet was turned into the yellowpages with sharp teeth by google .

They would still have everything else to make up for and improve, but maybe it would be a start. Unfortunately self criticism is not in the programming, and its a very dangerous failing. Saying that, the boom in mental health awareness in China is an interesting cultural development occurring since covid, and Beijing has been involved in it.

I ditched it around 2014 when I noticed it had effectively become the yellow pages. Its pretending to be one thing to the ‘user’ when its actually serving someone else. This is transparent of course but the balance/compromise or tradeoff of it still providing some utility to the user despite this is what may vary for different people. My threshold was low. That and the privacy violations. Unfortunately its a corporation.

Thanks both. I’ve seen enough. Beyond problematic on substicks part.

Mind providing a bit more context to this so I can look it up ? I’ll boycott substick if need be.

According to police records, there have been 19 incidents of indiscriminate violence in China this year in which the perpetrator was not known to the victims. Sixty-three people have been killed and 166 injured in these attacks. This is a sharp increase on previous years - 16 killed and 40 injured in 2023, for instance. While the incidents are still sporadic and rare, they are high-profile. And the videos that often circulate soon after on social media have prompted concern and fear among people. “These are symptoms of a society with a lot of pent-up grievances,” Lynette Ong, distinguished professor of Chinese politics at Canada’s University of Toronto, told AFP. “Some people resort to giving up. Others, if they’re angry, want to take revenge.” A slowing economy, high youth unemployment and a property crisis that has hurt savings have led to increasing uncertainty about the future among Chinese people.

Meanwhile the NZ gov use this as a distraction while they display a disgusting lack of humility, regret, or compassion to the people who will be most affected by this. What an embarrassment. They behave as if this is a minor loss by the All Blacks, while traipsing around the world on trade junkets with smarmy CEO-like abandon. Talk about up ending NZ’s already tenuous reputation in the South Pacific, and with our long disrespected neighbour Samoa. Not enough that this gov are trashing our local environment and services within the country. They really had to cherry pick these trolls out of a sea of moderate response , most likely at the instruction of their PR social media and info strategy overlords. I’m sure the skipper of this vessel is suffering enough without her government (and employer) cynically using her as a political opportunity for distraction.

https://archive.is/2024.10.10-143326/https://www.economist.com/business/2024/10/10/china-is-writing-the-worlds-technology-rules

Yes, as a lapsed one myself, I believe they preach it as they need it the most, as the self proclaimed representatives of the creator of the universe would, when happening to be historical blood thirsty, wealth hoarding, human trafficking paedophile harbourers they are at their political core. Regardless, forgiveness is a necessary and helpful human value which religion did not invent, much like all of the moral arguments in apology of religion. If it works for you, thats fine. My position is also based on having grown up in it.

This is catholicism we’re talking about.

But the old farts are growing in numbers, so to what degree were conservatives always that way, in other words are people becoming newly/more conservative about immigrants in their old age, or will the more liberal young ones of today bring this more open attitude into their old age , lessening conservatism over time?

This is anthropomorphic thinking. But in order to express the concept that aggressions and other interactions could increase toward species who have built their overinflated infrastructures across migration paths, territories or outright destroyed swathes of habitat of other species, yeh they probably are hella angry at these stupid hairless apes.

Assuming this is sarcasm, I’m fine with being reminded of the CCP’s continuing disregard for international law, basic law of HK, and their pissing all over the joint declaration. Whether or not we saw it coming, its bad for the people of HK, China and the world. And it hasn’t been two decades since the regression got underway with this current clique of psychopaths anyway. Things were somewhat optimistic 10 years ago on both sides of the border. There were concerns, but the agreed arrangement which they’ve now torn up in order to turn HK into a dystopia, was working. Unfortunately positive human development is incompatible with insecure authoritarians. All of these developments are sad.

I just finished Burmese Days, and as someone who grew up in a (former) British colony, it hits hard. Orwell had his finger on the pulse of the 20th century and spoke very plainly about what he saw around him, and most importantly within himself. Something we could all do more of.

This should not be happening.

I don’t have any skin in this game, but what are the Orwellian talking points you refer to? I’m curious how this term is used and develops over time.

No wonder it descended into a mob. They ordered ribs and got livers. Sounded pretty orderly saying that.

They’ve been increasing usage relatively fast. Air quality is an apparent motivator, but being less sufficient on coal , as well as increasing energy demands with of course massive (though recently slowing) growth of middle class population and their consumeristic and life needs are also motivators. I’m not sure of the share of generation. There is a fair amount of NIMBYism in China if you check on local or regional news occassionally. I’m not sure about recently but nuclear plants under construction have had protests, as well as serial polluting factories and other cases. I’m not sure if those qualify as NIMBYism but there is a culture of dissent where it affects the outcomes of especially individuals, believe it or not. None of this is in defence of the CCP who can go suck an egg and who have been much more stern in their responses to dissent in recent years.

Why would we believe the promises of the ones who ruined the primary utility of their core product in the first place, and convinced or blackmailed the rest of the internet to take part in the ruination ? An advertising corporation will tell us to put cyanide on our pizza if it makes them an extra buck this quarter, and google is worse than that. Profit despite the social costs is doing no evil /s