I used it for a while, it is quite good, but I recently switched to a webxdc (in-chat mini-app) in Delta Chat which allows me to access the codes from any device where I have Delta Chat installed and adding a new token in one device synchronizes to all other devices this also mean that my tokens are safe if one of my devices die and I will not lose them. All of this is without depending on a server holding your data

Love it how “enshitification” is becoming a common word

I love how the alternative to American chatting apps is yet another centralized American chatting app running on a plethora of American services from Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Cloudflare etc. And based on phone numbers where they can easily cut down comms for Europeans at any given time the US gives the orders

🤡🤡🤡

Even Gmail allows to use the email client of your choice, going for an email provider that force you to use their app is a bummer

nice! if you want to join a small ArcaneChat community group: https://i.delta.chat/#6CBFF8FFD505C0FDEA20A66674F2916EA8FBEE99=&a=invitebot%40nine.testrun.org&g=ArcaneChat+Community&x=3KvvQZfzU4t-9u5s0PF3USGp&i=AQKH9_8x0R0&s=dbGW9xOhRQX

preferably join with an anonymous arcanechat.me profile, not with your main account ;)

It is for encrypted email only, its possible if the other people use some client that supports encryption, if you question is “can the email provider be used to send and receive unsecure unencrypted email that the server would have access to and read all my conversations?” the answer is no, the app can be used with such unsecure providers but arcanechat.me server is focused on security and no unencrypted email/data is ever stored on the server

If you use ArcaneChat (https://arcanechat.me/) or DeltaChat (https://delta.chat/) there is an in-chat mini-apps for split bills, you can use it with groups of friends totally private end-to-end encrypted between chat members without the need of any online service for split bills

It is an email provider but for encrypted email and optimized for speed and security, to use for chatting, the app looks like WhatsApp etc but every message is just an encrypted email

It is also possible to run GUI desktops in Termux since ages, for example take a look at:

AnLinux (Run Linux On Android Without Root Access) https://f-droid.org/packages/exa.lnx.a/

It was also possible to run a “full Debian” using PRoot etc

If what you want is encrypted email, and see it in the form of a chat, take a look at ArcaneChat

Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them; there are a lot more than I thought! https://community.signalusers.org/t/wiki-overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243

ok I read it, these are no real security audits but academic reviews of protocol properties etc.

Matrix isn’t ready for the general public and I’m doubtful it ever will be, so in the meantime Signal is the next best thing.

yeah, it is too complex etc. take a look at https://arcanechat.me/ and https://delta.chat/ (I contribute to these open source projects) they are probably the decentralized messengers that are more on pair with WhatsApp etc. super easy to use, no phone numbers or any private data required

Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them

thanks for sharing!

It’s serverless though, right?

no, and in fact the cost of running it is really high because the server infrastructure they need to pay, they even say it themselves “Signal is expensive” https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/

it would be possible just to fork and use a “European” version of it

in theory yes, in practice no one has done it, and then you should not use Signal but the european fork which will not be compatible/federated with signal

It is a us based non profit that doesn’t store any information about you

still it runs in AWS, Microsoft, etc servers, and as any centralized service policy and interests can change at any time in the future, which would be pretty bad when you have several countries fully depending on them, just look the current situation with whatsapp, you can not be resilient/sovereign like that

has been independently audited like four times.

could you provide source pointing to the security audits?

it is pointless to talk in theory without actually trying things out, besides the app doesn’t have to do only email, in fact it already has p2p support for real-time that can be used for now inside the https://webxdc.org/ mini-apps, and might be used for calls in the future, or just use WebRTC for calls, one of the mini-apps in the store “Live Chat” already has typing indicators btw. The app already has Jitsi Meet invitations integration.

Chatting in Delta Chat with chatmail feels just as fast as WhatsApp, Telegram etc. sometimes even faster depending on the chatmail server you use

Delta chat is basically email.

and how is that exactly a problem? the protocol is email, but email done right is actually good and fast, as it can be tested if you actually try out the app. The new chatmail servers are optimized for chatting, the main reason classic email providers suck is because they have to deal with spam and arbitrary decisions like gray-listing etc

Threema is paid (registration tied to payment is already bad for privacy, most people will not register with some crypto-coin etc) and centralized, any centralized service is vulnerable to enshitification, none of them start evil, also it is easier to block by authoritarian governments and can’t be used in a sovereign/independent way (ex. own independent server in a local community)

Session: it has been a long time since I last used Session, at the time my impression was that it was a bit hacky and it was draining my battery and using a lot of mobile data, more importantly Session doesn’t seem to have multi-account support, also doesn’t seem to support using your own independent server “off-the-grid”. Session groups have a limit of only 100 members while in ArcaneChat groups can have 1000 members for now (or even more depending on the server you use, ex. your own)

none of them have in-chat collaborative/interactive apps (ex. collaborative editor, calendar, shopping lists, split bills, polls, etc.) and games that can be used even while offline

How on earth do you think the various Matrix clients are “this is for nerds” like and buggy? How do you come to this statement?

if you don’t even see the problem, I am not even sure it is worth to try to talk about it… ex. a private 1:1 chat in Matrix is a “room” the whole experience of starting a private chat with your mom is a series of “foo invited bar to room”, “bar joined the room”, etc. besides easy to end up in a state where not even you can read your own messages the famous “unable to decrypt”

Signal can be based on Useraccounts without phone numbers as well.

Signal depends on phone numbers, if you are talking about setting a nick-name (which Telegram supports since ages) that doesn’t mean anything a phone number is still required, just as in Telegram, and it is not an argument against my point that talked about the need for a SIM card.

And the registration process tbh is a pro and non a con

it is a con, period.

if you don’t provide a secured process you will be run over by bots at some time.

bots are supported and welcome, just as on Telegram, bots can’t spam people because, unlike on Signal with the phone numbers problem, in ArcaneChat people can’t just write to you randomly, they need your contact’s invitation link. Also in worse case, migrating your address is possible and cheap, you can have many accounts as you want and also create accounts temporarily to interact “in the wild”

Is that feature audited?

yes, ArcaneChat is a Delta Chat client, and the Delta Chat app and core has received several audits (six over the past of years so far), any Delta Chat client using the Delta Chat core benefits from the security audits, you can read about it here: https://chaos.social/@delta/113963707915543266 unlike many of the mentioned clients that don’t have any known security audit at all?

BTW: Furthmore your website does not confirm with German legal requirements and makes you an easy target for bad faith lawyers,btw.

could you tell me what is wrong with it? my address is show in the terms & privacy policy / GDPR, but I admittedly am not well informed in German law topics, so if you could point me in the right direction I would be really grateful

post-data: please don’t read my reply as a aggressive discussion, I am just providing arguments, not trying to fight unknown people in the Internet, and I appreciate you took your time to reply, have a nice day!

I wrote to the admin asking for including the 64bit version, let’s see

Sure thing! ArcaneChat is decentralized: https://github.com/ArcaneChat/server