With the refrigeration, which do you consider the canonical community to follow now? You mod both, right? Are you going to keep the bit posting to both?

And just today with a comment by a world admin! Hopefully they’ll get it sorted soon.

… advertisement and push they did on sites like reddit…

The lemmy world admins advertised on Reddit? Can you link an example?

… their listing on join-lemmy.org…

Until recently EVERY lemmy instance was listed on join-lemmy.

And with the name Lemmy.world they did nothing to dissuade anyone from thinking that.

They run a family of servers under the world tld, including at least mastodon, lemmy, and calckey. They’re all named similarly.

I also saw nothing from .world not claiming to be the bigger instance(super lemmy)

They ARE the biggest instance, but that happened organically. It’s not based on any marketing claims from the admin team about being a flagship/super/mega/whatever instance. People just joined, and the admins didn’t stop them (nor should they). It’s not a conspiracy to take over lemmy. It’s just an instance that… until recently… happened to work pretty well when some were struggling.

I think the issue is that .world has put itself forward as some sort of super lemmy.

Citation needed. All the admins of lemmy world ever purported to do was host a well-run general-purpose (aka not topic-oriented) lemmy instance. It was and remains that, and part of being a well-run general purpose instance is managing legal risk when a small subset of the community generates an outsized portion of it.

Being well run meant that they scaled up and remained operational during the first reddit migration wave. People appreciated that, but continuing to function does not amount to a declaration of being a super lemmy.

World also has kept signups open through good times, and more recently bad. Other instances at various times shut down signups or put irritating steps and purity tests along the way. Keeping signups open is a pretty bare-minimum bar for running a service though, it is again not a declaration of being a super-lemmy.

Essentially lemmy world just… kept working (until recently when it has done a pretty poor job of that). I dunno where you found a declaration that lemmy world is a super-lemmy, but it’s not coming from the lemmy world admins, it’s likely randos spouting off.

Are you aware of the modlog? Post removals generally do have an explanation. There’s a handy one in your case:

Discussion on how to pirate games is not allowed. We’ll update the rules to be more transparent about this.

https://sopuli.xyz/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModRemovePost&userId=1683334

I have to wonder if NLNet has some process for amending commitments made in light of new lessons learned. By a wide variety of metrics, the impact of the project has been increased beyond all imagination and ambition that people could have had in January. And the technology and quality of the project has improved way way faster as its accrued new contributors. This is really a case where the the right milestones to measure by have changed.

One might also hope that a call for help from contributors on these specific milestones might just get them back on track.

But speculation aside… yeah your description of their funding challenges is accurate.

If you’re serious about this, there’s a post up calling for sysops: https://lemmy.world/post/2769245

It’s somewhat of a commitment, rather than drop-in drop-out… but that’s what it takes to make a difference here. There are already several sharp and experienced database engineers working on the Lemmy world team. The problem is that the site is under repeated denial of service attack, and there isn’t one bad query to fix… each time one query gets addressed, the attackers move on to a new one.

While it’s always possible that someone has missed a silver bullet, it’s much more likely that a a series of ongoing independent mitigations and optimizations are needed to achieve a tipping point where lemmy is more or less protectable with some hidden dos-able bits rather than more or less trivially dos-able everywhere.

Lemmy.world has been under repeated attack recently though, and the behaviors you’ve described match what I see when th service is down. You can see current status and the history of frequent incidents at https://lemmy-world.statuspage.io/.

To relate to your statement about what fails and how, I can say I’ve seen the failure-modes change as they adapt the setup, and it’s a more complex stack than other lemmy instances in order to deal with the attacks and large scale. It degrades in complex ways that are hard to fully reason about unless you’re pretty deeply familiar with how things are out together.

I suspect you’re seeing a combination of “lemmy world is broken sometimes”, “Cloudflare gives weird errors sometimes”, and “clients cache things or degrade to unauthenticated connections sometimes”. But in any case, seeing lemmy.world be flaky is not weird, it’s having a heckuva time.

It’s not guaranteed that every federated app integrates with every other federated app in a particularly useful way. You kind of need to take it on an app by app basis:

• Kbin and lemmy integrate very well. “Magazines” on kbin show up as communities in lemmy. You have almost certainly already read and responded to posts and comments from kbin users, and you may have subscribed to communities on kbin.social, the largest kbin instance. Interacting between the two is pretty much seamless.
• Mastodon and Lemmy integrate, but less completely. If you’ve seen a post full of #hashtags and with an @thecommunity@instance mention, that’s probably from a mastodon user. I’m not sure how a lemmy user can initiate contact with a mastodon user, but a mastodon user can at-mention a lemmy community as if it were a mastodon user and doing that will create a lemmy post. Comments on the lemmy post look like replies to the mastodon toot.

Other fediverse projects will interact in varying specific ways, and you need to figure each pair out individually.

The earth and sun and milky way are temporary. Like these things, the Beehaw defederation is ongoing and has no predetermined end.

I don’t think it is more complicated than, e.g a VPS provider or a SaaS platform and a customer that wants to have run a server online or a managed application.

That’s a very reasonable comparison, but to me the more relevant comparison is that of creating a commercial social media account or standard fediverse account today. This is much less accessible to users than that process, and also much more demanding on server admins.

I’d certainly be overjoyed to learn that I’m wrong and for this to revolutionize account mobility. But I don’t see volunteer server admins lining up to facilitate DNS delegation for fun or users lining up to pay VPS prices for commercial hosting of their own social media domain. The bar for simplicity and usability for me is quite a lot higher than I see this sort of approach evolving to provide.

Fair enough. The level of close coordination required between takahe server admins and domain owners seems to make domain migration at-scale somewhere between very expensive and simply prohibitive relative to self-service account sign up though. And I’m not sure I see a clear path to resolving that issue, though it’s certainly an interesting project even if it can’t deliver domain mobility at scale.

If you are not happy with the server, you just move to a different service and get your domain to point to the new server.

I’m just learning about takahe now, but it very much looks like domains are the remit of server admins, not users. Setting up a domain appears to require admin-privileges on the computer running takahe, not something that an individual user or non-admin group of users can do. So it seems to me that takahe doesn’t facilitate users controlling domains and improving mobility of domains between different servers controlled by different admins, but rather appears to be a tool for a given admin-team to segment their users and move them around among the group of servers they control.

I could very much be missing something here, this doesn’t seem to be a scalable approach to server mobility or a way to extricate yourself from an admin team you’re in conflict with.

I thought that was the first rule of rendering web content? Or was it protocol parsers?

I remember, it was first rule of video game character creation screens:

Sorry, that password is already in use.

Who’s using it? I’ll just use that account.

Awesome feature. It’s great to see you thoughtfully trying to balance the community discovery problem with the federation overhead caused by mass subscription.

While I continue to favor and recommend manual subscription, I’ve bookmarked lsb and lcs to recommend to folks looking for automated approaches. I think they’re looking pretty good right now and seeing you proactively address feedback gives me faith that they’ll get even better.

I’m not experienced at cleanup, and I don’t think lemmony offers an undo. But if you used an account other than your primary… I think deleting that account will nuke its subs and you can start over. If I’m wrong, this may leave a bunch of orphaned subs with no user and no way to write an api-script to unsub.

In either case, I do recommend doing your automated subs on a different account and viewing them in all rather than directly subbing your main account to all that junk. It definitely give you more options for cleanup.

I think you more or less have it. Rather than saying no app can do everything, I’d probably frame it as different apps being optimized for different things. An app that tried to offer an optimized experience for everything is going to end up feeling like a bunch of apps bodged together anyway (basically like meta) because community stuff wants to looks different than microblogging stuff which wants to look different from photosharing stuff.

Of the 3 subscription bootstrappers listed in this thread, lemmony is by far the worst of them because it subscribes to EVERYTHING by default.

Lcs forces you to pick a number of communities to subscribe to, and the other one has default threshold heuristics that pick a limited number of active communities. Lemmony signs you up for the entire firehose of the threadiverse which both makes instances using it pretty bad fediverse citizens in terms of generating a 50x-100x the federation load of a “normal” single-user instance that subs maybe a hundred communities… and also exposes novice single-user instance owners to legal liability by subbing all the small under-moderated communities full of questionably illegal stuff.

I would recommend one of the better designed tools, and to review the resulting subscription list manually to ensure you’re not signing up for some sketchy stuff.

It’s nice to see this officially hosted for lemmy.world users. I’ve been curious about wefwef but there was no way I was going to enter my creds into a third-party proxy. It feels much better to do so via an instance hosted by the world admins where my Lemmy account is though.

FYIW, when you save this as a PWA via Firefox mobile, the name is just “voyager”, which I assume makes it hard to distinguish from the voyager instance hosted by its devs. I don’t think this can be changed as a user (unless I’m too dumb to figure it out). If the PWA app name can be changed server side, might be good to call it Voyager World or something.