• febra@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Hey look that’s what we’ve been saying all along. Israel just looking to annex more land.

    • mwguy@infosec.pub
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      11 months ago

      More like setting up checkpoints between cities. Actively hunting for terrorists and launch sites and the return of settlers and settlements to Gaza. Hamas did it!

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Well, you never saw an attack of this scale in the West Bank, where the IDF does have an extremely thorough presence. And you never saw this happen before the IDF withdrew from Gaza.

          So, yes, you have sarcastically arrived at a true solution. Well done.

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              11 months ago

              It’s amazing that people can see Apartheid and how it ended and never question Palestinian actions. Apartheid ended because there was a belief in a peaceful future. There’s no Mandela in Palestine that can convince the Israeli’s that giving up power would lead to peace. And after a 20 year experiment in self rule in Gaza failed; it’s hard to see the alternative.

              • AdeptusPrimaris@lemmy.ml
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                11 months ago

                Just fyi. Apartheid didn’t end because of peaceful protest.

                The ANC had been peacefully opposing the Apartheid government. But that all ended after the Sharpeville massacre commited by the Apartheid government.

                Then MK was formed ( uMkhonto we Sizwe). MK was the armed guerilla resistance that Mandela and the ANC saw was needed, because the Apartheid government wasn’t giving in to peaceful opposition of their government.

                You’re probably confusing what people say was a ‘peaceful’ end to Apartheid because civil war was avoided.

                And it was only truly avoided because the resistance had to make so many unfair concessions to the international liberal powers that be ( imf, the US etc.) and the Apartheid government. Otherwise the Apartheid government was gearing up to actually start mass murdering the non white population (aka genocide).

                There truly are a lot of parallels between Apartheid south africa and israel

                  • AdeptusPrimaris@lemmy.ml
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                    11 months ago

                    Exactly. People don’t want to accept it but i see a lot of parallels between MK and Qassam brigades as liberation armed struggle. When peaceful protest fails then violent opposition is inevitable.

                • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                  11 months ago

                  The problem is that there’s no peaceful organization saying “yes two state solution” or “yes one integrated, non-religious state”.

                  Weaker violence only works if there’s a weaker peaceful option.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                Like the other guy said, what ended Apartheid was the ANC’s violent resistance and international pressure.

                Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza exactly as long as Gaza has had self-rule (both started in September 2005). The Gazan economy was dependent on using the income from agricultural exports to import food and other life necessities. Then Israel came and just said no you can’t do that.

                • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                  11 months ago

                  Also the “experiment” in Gaza failed because Israel has blockaded Gaza

                  The world’s largest ever suicide bombing campaign started that blockade. And two decades of indiscriminate rocket fire kept it going.

                  The Iron Dome isn’t magic. It can only intercept so many projectiles. No blockade and Gaza is recoccuoied in 2008.

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    11 months ago

                    And two decades of indiscriminate rocket fire kept it going.

                    Then why wasn’t it lifted in 2008 or 2013? Israel signed ceasefires with Hamas then that stipulated the blockade would be lifted, and even though Hamas followed their end of the ceasefire it wasn’t lifted.

                    Also, then what was the “experiment” you were talking about? Whether a strip of land dependent on foreign trade can survive when cut off from the outside world?

      • shiroininja@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You have no right to land other people already live on, unless you buy it from them. Settlers have no rights. We’ve mixed past this since colonization.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
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          11 months ago

          If peace can’t be sustained, might makes right unfortunately.

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              11 months ago

              No. I’m saying that when a conflict starts there is no “right” anymore in the colloquial sense. And while I can easily blame am aggressors in a conflict for removing the comfort of peace, it’s much harder to justify blaming the entity attacked for its response.

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          A huge amount of Israel’s land was legally purchased during the late Ottoman era and the later British Mandate. We have plenty of records.

          • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            So was the land that the US “bought” off of the indigenous tribes. Doesn’t make it right. Certainly doesn’t justify an ethnic cleansing.

            • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Eh, some of it. I won’t pretend to be an expert, but I’m pretty sure most American land was acquired by settlers simply marching in with guns and saying “We’re here now”. That’s to say nothing of the countless treaties that were signed and broken.

              I don’t exactly think the Osage were contacted about the Louisiana Purchase.

          • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            yeah, but different words have different implications and connotations. We say settlers, and that word doesn’t hit as hard as colonizers or oppressors, even though they all pretty much mean the same thing.

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              11 months ago

              In fairness colonizers just sounds silly. Just like most words with a “z” in it.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
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          11 months ago

          No it likely won’t go well. But it doesn’t really need to go well. It just needs to go better.

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              11 months ago

              Well since 2004/2005 there have been zero Palestinian homes or land stolen by Israeli’s in Gaza. And as a result 100k+ rockets, the world’s largest suicide bombing campaign and endless militant attacks have come out of the territory. So from am Israeli perspective, if those things stop; even if it means that a few Palestinians get kicked out of their homes, it’s a win.