are you being sarcastic? this is war on drugs and oppression of children, im sorry that it’s unappetizing to you, its still a systemic injustice. banning drugs isn’t an effective way to reduce their harm on society, and this is being done out of the belief that children are subhuman
strawman. i never called anyone a puritan, and you’re being overdramatic by personally labeling yourself as an oppressor rather than just someone who passively condones oppression. if you want to talk about other drugs we can do that (i’m about to reply to someone else who mentioned cocaine), but right now we’re talking about caffeine. caffeine is safer to use than most other drugs, there’s no clearly demonstrable reason why kids shouldn’t be taking it. nobody was ever talking about “limits” or “supervision” afaik, and that’s actually one of my biggest issues with outright banning it. if teenagers are consuming caffeine out in the open and openly discussing it, there’s ample opportunity for peers as well as responsible adults to notice and intervene with bad habits, they have support and can talk about how to do this healthily. if you ban it, they’re going to hide it so it’ll be a lot harder to reach out and help them if they’re having issues, and they’ll feel like they’re inherently doing something they’re not supposed to be doing, so they’ll be less concerned about looking out for themselves, and they’ll have less access to information about using it safely. remember that kids are forced into an inhumane schedule of sleep deprivation and pointless work, and especially for undiagnosed/unmedicated adhd or possibly other neurodivergence, caffeine can be just as important to their functioning as it is for many adults. how much can we ask of them?
Don’t forget your belief that children are subhuman. An important aspect of being human is legally guaranteed unlimited access to the self-kill juice no matter your circumstances nor development.
an important aspect of being human is having a reasonable degree of autonomy, for people to respect the decisions you make for yourself. can you try saying anything that’s not a strawman?
Following this argument to its logical extreme, why have age of consent laws? Why not let 10 year olds drive? Why not let kids apply for credit cards so they can accrue thousands in debt for Fortnite skins?
As a society we have accepted that children are not developmentally ready for many things. I don’t see why this is any different.
Did I drink booze underage? Of course, like millions of kids. But it was mainly at house parties and whatnot. I think drinking at house parties with a bunch of age appropriate people was probably a (relatively) safer environment to get introduced to alcohol than hanging around in bars at 15. A bit of a tangent but just a concrete example from my life of how even when being broken these kinds of laws might reduce harm.
yes, taking legal rights away from a group of people based on vibes is oppression. just because they can’t fight back doesn’t mean you can just do whatever you want to them. plenty of kids can use energy drinks in a healthy way and plenty of adults can’t. as an adult, i see absolutely no reason why i’m more qualified to buy energy drinks than anyone else. it comes down to a complete lack of empathy, you forget what it was like to be subject to every adult’s whims and never have your protests taken seriously, knowing you’ll never have to deal with it again.
as an adult, i see absolutely no reason why i’m more qualified to buy energy drinks than anyone else.
The reason is cognitive development, especially before the age of 16, the same reason kids aren’t tried as adults in a court of law.
plenty of kids can use energy drinks in a healthy way and plenty of adults can’t.
The main reason people drink energy drinks in the first place is to stay awake longer, which is already unhealthy on its own. Usually this is tied to severe overwork or extreme study sessions, making it even more unhealthy.
my big developed grownup brain told me to drink like five cans a day because its yummy. (this was a short period where i tried them, i’m not using caffeine nowadays for the record.) the brain development argument is a reflexive excuse for claiming that the worst adult is better and more deserving than the best child, it just doesn’t translate to reality 99% of the time.
i don’t see how the second paragraph is relevant at all. you have not proven that caffeine is inherently unhealthy, nobody has. and if it was, why are only kids being targeted? if kids feel a need to stay awake longer and overwork themselves, you should focus on fixing that rather than taking away the drug that makes it bearable for them. why are we expecting something from kids that we don’t expect from adults?
under 16 year olds shouldnt have any reason to be consuming stimulants but they clearly are, instead of the state intervening in why they do that theyre just throwing the book at one sensationalized product group.
literally 0 cafeine or sugar addicts will be stopped, because neither is actually being blocked, just an arbitrary combination of the two.
just because you believe in the utility of state bans on products you shouldn’t credulously entertain the worst incarnations of these coming from the worst governments on earth. the UK government is starving children with austerity but sure, this is about children’s health and not a bone to tabloid readers
Not to entirely defend that take. But the authorial family structure/upbringing as a result of patriarchy is something a lot marxist spoke out against.
cocaine ruins your life and caffeine doesn’t. if a kid is regularly using caffeine, it’s entirely possible that they’re completely healthy and well-adjusted. if a kid is regularly using cocaine, they likely have major underlying issues that need to be addressed. kids have way way less desire to use cocaine than caffeine. there is a huge difference between imprisoning people and banning the sale, but you still have the same fundamental issue that you cannot ban a drug, you can only hurt and stigmatize the users to varying degrees.
are you being sarcastic? this is war on drugs and oppression of children, im sorry that it’s unappetizing to you, its still a systemic injustice. banning drugs isn’t an effective way to reduce their harm on society, and this is being done out of the belief that children are subhuman
I think 10 year olds shouldn’t have unlimited unsupervised access to drugs and that makes me a puritan and oppressor of children now
strawman. i never called anyone a puritan, and you’re being overdramatic by personally labeling yourself as an oppressor rather than just someone who passively condones oppression. if you want to talk about other drugs we can do that (i’m about to reply to someone else who mentioned cocaine), but right now we’re talking about caffeine. caffeine is safer to use than most other drugs, there’s no clearly demonstrable reason why kids shouldn’t be taking it. nobody was ever talking about “limits” or “supervision” afaik, and that’s actually one of my biggest issues with outright banning it. if teenagers are consuming caffeine out in the open and openly discussing it, there’s ample opportunity for peers as well as responsible adults to notice and intervene with bad habits, they have support and can talk about how to do this healthily. if you ban it, they’re going to hide it so it’ll be a lot harder to reach out and help them if they’re having issues, and they’ll feel like they’re inherently doing something they’re not supposed to be doing, so they’ll be less concerned about looking out for themselves, and they’ll have less access to information about using it safely. remember that kids are forced into an inhumane schedule of sleep deprivation and pointless work, and especially for undiagnosed/unmedicated adhd or possibly other neurodivergence, caffeine can be just as important to their functioning as it is for many adults. how much can we ask of them?
Don’t forget your belief that children are subhuman. An important aspect of being human is legally guaranteed unlimited access to the self-kill juice no matter your circumstances nor development.
an important aspect of being human is having a reasonable degree of autonomy, for people to respect the decisions you make for yourself. can you try saying anything that’s not a strawman?
Following this argument to its logical extreme, why have age of consent laws? Why not let 10 year olds drive? Why not let kids apply for credit cards so they can accrue thousands in debt for Fortnite skins?
As a society we have accepted that children are not developmentally ready for many things. I don’t see why this is any different.
Did I drink booze underage? Of course, like millions of kids. But it was mainly at house parties and whatnot. I think drinking at house parties with a bunch of age appropriate people was probably a (relatively) safer environment to get introduced to alcohol than hanging around in bars at 15. A bit of a tangent but just a concrete example from my life of how even when being broken these kinds of laws might reduce harm.
lmao
yes, taking legal rights away from a group of people based on vibes is oppression. just because they can’t fight back doesn’t mean you can just do whatever you want to them. plenty of kids can use energy drinks in a healthy way and plenty of adults can’t. as an adult, i see absolutely no reason why i’m more qualified to buy energy drinks than anyone else. it comes down to a complete lack of empathy, you forget what it was like to be subject to every adult’s whims and never have your protests taken seriously, knowing you’ll never have to deal with it again.
The reason is cognitive development, especially before the age of 16, the same reason kids aren’t tried as adults in a court of law.
The main reason people drink energy drinks in the first place is to stay awake longer, which is already unhealthy on its own. Usually this is tied to severe overwork or extreme study sessions, making it even more unhealthy.
my big developed grownup brain told me to drink like five cans a day because its yummy. (this was a short period where i tried them, i’m not using caffeine nowadays for the record.) the brain development argument is a reflexive excuse for claiming that the worst adult is better and more deserving than the best child, it just doesn’t translate to reality 99% of the time. i don’t see how the second paragraph is relevant at all. you have not proven that caffeine is inherently unhealthy, nobody has. and if it was, why are only kids being targeted? if kids feel a need to stay awake longer and overwork themselves, you should focus on fixing that rather than taking away the drug that makes it bearable for them. why are we expecting something from kids that we don’t expect from adults?
these are unaddressed by restrictions on caffeine consumption of course
This is the weirdest upvoted take on Hexbear I have ever seen.
There’s a huge difference between imprisoning people for taking a drug, and banning the sale of goods to children.
But never mind, I agree, legalise the direct sale of cocaine to children now!
under 16 year olds shouldnt have any reason to be consuming stimulants but they clearly are, instead of the state intervening in why they do that theyre just throwing the book at one sensationalized product group.
literally 0 cafeine or sugar addicts will be stopped, because neither is actually being blocked, just an arbitrary combination of the two.
just because you believe in the utility of state bans on products you shouldn’t credulously entertain the worst incarnations of these coming from the worst governments on earth. the UK government is starving children with austerity but sure, this is about children’s health and not a bone to tabloid readers
Not to entirely defend that take. But the authorial family structure/upbringing as a result of patriarchy is something a lot marxist spoke out against.
cocaine ruins your life and caffeine doesn’t. if a kid is regularly using caffeine, it’s entirely possible that they’re completely healthy and well-adjusted. if a kid is regularly using cocaine, they likely have major underlying issues that need to be addressed. kids have way way less desire to use cocaine than caffeine. there is a huge difference between imprisoning people and banning the sale, but you still have the same fundamental issue that you cannot ban a drug, you can only hurt and stigmatize the users to varying degrees.
Hard disagree that this will hurt and stigmatise children to any degree. Are children stigmatised because they can’t vote or drive?
Letting kids sleep in a couple more hours in the morning before school would help them more than giving them unlimited access to gamer juice.
im feeling a lot of personal animosity towards you so im disengaging from this argument