• General_Effort@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    2 days ago

    The key doesn’t have to be on your phone. You can just send it to some service to sign it, identifying yourself to that service in whatever way.

    • iii@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      It’s that “whatever way” that is difficult. This proposal merely shifts the problem: now the login to that 3rd party can be shared, and age verification subverted.

      • General_Effort@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 day ago

        A phone can also be shared. If it happens at scale, it will be flagged pretty quickly. It’s not a real problem.

        The only real problem is the very intention of such laws.

        • iii@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 day ago

          If it happens at scale, it will be flagged pretty quickly.

          How? In a correct implementation, the 3rd parties only receive proof-of-age, no identity. How will re-use and sharing be detected?

          • General_Effort@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 day ago

            There are 3 parties:

            1. the user
            2. the age-gated site
            3. the age verification service

            The site (2) sends the request to the user (1), who passes it on to the service (3) where it is signed and returned the same way. The request comes with a nonce and a time stamp, making reuse difficult. An unusual volume of requests from a single user will be detected by the service.

            • iii@mander.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              19 hours ago

              from a single user

              Neither 2 nor 3 should receive information about the identity of the user, making it difficult to count the volume of requests by user?

              • General_Effort@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                12 hours ago

                Strictly speaking, neither needs to know the actual identity. However, the point is that both are supposed to receive information about the user’s age. I’m not really sure what your point is.

                • iii@mander.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  11 hours ago

                  I must not be explaining myself well.

                  both are supposed to receive information about the user’s age

                  Yes, that’s the point. They should be receiving information about age, and age only. Therefore they lack the information to detect reuse.

                  If they are able to detect reuse, they receive more (and personal identifying) information. Which shouldn’t be the case.

                  The only known way to include a nonce, without releasing identifying information to the 3rd parties, is using a DRM like chip. This results in the sovereignty and trust issues I referred to earlier.

                  • General_Effort@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    10 hours ago

                    The site would only know that the user’s age is being vouched for by some government-approved service. It would not be able to use this to track the user across different devices/IPs, and so on.

                    The service would only know that the user is requesting that their age be vouched for. It would not know for what. Of course, they would have to know your age somehow. EG they could be selling access in shops, like alcohol is sold in shops. The shop checks the ID. The service then only knows that you have login credentials bought in some shop. Presumably these credentials would not remain valid for long.

                    They could use any other scheme, as well. Maybe you do have to upload an ID, but they have to delete it immediately afterward. And because the service has to be in the EU, government-certified with regular inspections, that’s safe enough.

                    In any case, the user would have to have access to some sort of account on the service. Activity related to that account would be tracked.


                    If that is not good enough, then your worries are not about data protection. My worries are not. I reject this for different reasons.