• Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Btw PoS is also bullshit, in a completely different and inferior class of crypto. It requires HUMAN CONSENT to enter the network.

    That is specific to delegated proof of stake, not PoS in general.

    • survirtual@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Proof of Stake = I have a stake in preserving this network, and I am rewarded by receiving an increased stake in the network.

      You cannot organically enter a PoS network without having a stake in it. That requires acquiring the network’s token somehow. That means you must use a different token to purchase it, do work for someone who will pay you in it, or otherwise perform an operation organized by people in order to acquire the token to have a stake.

      That’s what I mean by human consent.

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Your point is valid for new, immature blockchains. Censorship/access restrictions are possible and it’s very easy for PoS to turn into nothing at stake.

        In practice mature PoS chains don’t require any human consent.

        • survirtual@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Yes, they do.

          In order to acquire the token, where does it come from in PoS?

          You want to mint the token? It requires the token.

          You want to buy the token? It requires someone that already has the token to sell it.

          You want to trade the token? You need to find someone that has the token and wishes to perform that trade.

          It requires acquiring a counterparty that consents to you acquiring a stake no matter how “mature” a PoS chain is.

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            If you want to take a “purest” approach then bitcoin has similar problems. To gain any chance of mining BTC you have to buy specialised equipment from someone.

            I would also put joining a mining collective in a similar “human consent” category

            • survirtual@lemmy.world
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              13 hours ago

              No.

              You can study the universe and come up with a way to do PoW more efficiently. PoW requires knowledge to enter. With more knowledge and mastery, you are rewarded more.

              The specialist equipment can be built by anyone at any time. Any country, any place. If your country blocks it? You can use specialist knowledge to circumvent them. You can also still use a computer to mine, though you will never mine a block now days, there is still a chance.

              All of this is a very, very important feature that almost everyone overlooks now days. It is essential that it be this way. Anyone should be able to enter the network assuming they have the knowledge to do so.

              • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                9 hours ago

                The specialist equipment can be built by anyone at any time.

                No no. This is a highly specialised industry dominated by Bitmain. Unless you are using the latest hardware you are vastly overspending on mining costs.

                You can also still use a computer to mine, though you will never mine a block now days, there is still a chance.

                There is almost zero chance. The only practical to get BTC using a normal computer is to buy it from someone else.

                Anyone should be able to enter the network assuming they have the knowledge to do so.

                Anyone can verify the network, but a there is no opportunity to obtain BTC without interacting with a (harware) gatekeeper.

                • survirtual@lemmy.world
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                  9 hours ago

                  This will be my last reply to you because I already explained this very basic idea, so you are either an antagonist, trolling, or need to do some self-learning. I would recommend reading what I said again.

                  An alien can come to Earth and use its UFO compute to mine bitcoin if it wanted.

                  Someone in their garage could come up with a vastly superior way to compute hashes and mine bitcoin.

                  Large mining farms could be banned and made illegal and smaller operations can instantly become profitable again.

                  The list goes on, and on, and on, and on…

                  • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                    6 hours ago

                    An alien can come to Earth and use its UFO compute to mine bitcoin if it wanted.

                    Not if it wants to win a block reward in any reasonable length of time.

                    First of all it would have to set up manufacturing to produce 7nm asic chips generating the SHA-256 algorithm.

                    Someone in their garage could come up with a vastly superior way to compute hashes and mine bitcoin.

                    This just means your hypothetical Tony Stark gets richer. It doesn’t help the aliens you invented earlier.

                    Large mining farms could be banned and made illegal and smaller operations can instantly become profitable again.

                    You still need human interaction to buy the necessary mining equipment.

                    Face it. Your idealistic objections to PoS apply equally (if not more so) to Bitcoin.