I agree, as a woman who very much cares about inclusive feminism. By silencing men who talk about their issues/pains, we push them further away. By pretending like men don’t have worries/fears/needs/wants, we’re doing them a disservice.
The Patriarchy hurts everyone. Men need to know that if theyre abused by a woman, it doesnt make them “less of a man”, nor is it “their fault”. No one deserves abuse. They, as victims deserve to be acknowledged and handled with care, and have their abuse investigated/taken seriously just as much as a woman does.
We aren’t silencing men. We are asking men to extend empathy to women too and not just other men. Men only caring about men is just another patriarchal tool.
I dont think men *don’t * extend empathy to us. I think Ive seen a hard shift from my parents (Gen X, they were young when they had me), to my Millenial husband and my friends. The vast majority (that Ive met, admittedly), seem like they’re on our side.
But it feels like theyre also trying to be like “Hey, we’re dealing with shit too”, and we’re turning around and being like “Not right now” and its been “Not Right Now” for 30+ years.
Are men perfect? Nah, but neither are we, and we have to make space for them to be validated as victims/people with struggles too. And we can also remind them to call out each other when theyre incorrect, and we need to do the same thing for each other which is what Im trying to do now.
Dont be the reason that Lib women get an even worse rep than we already have. We can discuss both perspectives!
I once saw a gif on Reddit of a little girl being forcibly kissed by a little boy (both about 6), and she shoved him off and he looked sad. The entire thousands of comments focused on the little boys first rejection. No one even noticed it was the little girl’s first sexual assault. She even wiped the kiss off, reminiscent of victims cleaning themselves after assaults.
When I pointed this out, people were angry. How dare I suggest that little boy is a monster. But I wasn’t. I was entirely focused on the little girl’s experience and I wasn’t advocating for anything relating to the boy. In fact, I think an appropriate “punishment” would be to explain to him to not touch people without asking etc. And that’s it.
But men were so unable to extend empathy to a girl, to a woman, that they literally couldn’t absorb this information or perspective take as her. This was like 3 years ago. It was astonishing. No, men do NOT empathize with women. Men empathize with themselves as an idealized version of who they would be as a woman - that’s projection by definition and is entirely how they feel entitled to control women and objectify them.
Are you not even trying to understand how toxic masculinity has forced men to shut up and swallow their feelings, has prevented them from pursuing passions for being “too girly”/not lucrative enough to provide for their family? How its pushed “strongman” narratives, and anything less than that is seen as “weaker/less than”? You cant see how male rape/abuse victims are treated differently than female rape/abuse victims?
Like, if you really cant open your eyes to how that may really affect someones mental health/quality of life, then I think you should do some work on learning empathy.
The 25 year old dude working at the gas station is not the reason the patriarchy is an issue. He’s struggling along with the rest of us, and we’re telling him he has nothing to complain about and has it easier. Thats not okay.
The patriarchy is hierarchy. Like all hierarchies, it’s pyramid shaped. It’s not a rectangle with all men on top and all women in the bottom. It’s a SMALL group of rich men oppressing everyone else. Sure MOST men are given more “power” than MOST women in the structure. That’s the deal the small group of oppressors gave to keep their power. They also give power to strong women who toe the line. But the idea that most men aren’t oppressed in the patriarchy is utterly ridiculous. You seriously think every man you see around you is secretly part of a cabal trying to keep you and other women down? You think that they have no problems, no burdensome expectations placed on them by the patriarchy to keep them in place? That they benefit from toxic masculinity instead of suffer by it? I’m sorry but you have a very dark view of 50% of the population if you think they’re the oppressor class and you’re in the victim class.
We’re all victims of the patriarchy unless we’re old rich white men. The only thing that separates us is the degree of victimisation.
Men, being in charge of the patriarchy, aren’t pushed by women. They are pushed by themselves and other men. This is patriarchy 101 and part of why you all sealioning about male abuse isn’t taken seriously anymore unless you are specifically talking about your abuse experience for emotional support. Try advocating for policies to help abuse victims instead of trying to find a creative way to say ‘women bad’ without getting flamed.
Not gonna lie. You’re doing an awful job at advocating. I understand what you’re saying but you’re doing it in such an offputting way that I have to wonder if you even care or if this is just you venting.
Being justified and right doesn’t mean you can act however you want in the name of that just cause.
If you’re not likeable then no one is going to listen to you.
The fact that this was your response only demonstrates that you are an unserious person with nothing of value to add, and are in fact part of the problem.
No idea what the hell you’re talking about anymore but clearly, abusing anyone is bad.
I’m sorry that someone apparently hurt you in the past, but that’s not my fault or my problem. You should seek help from a therapist instead of just blindly lashing out at anyone who wasn’t born the same sex as you.
Lol yet again a man shows a PROFOUND lack of empathy. Par for the course. Yes, I’m hysterical and not smiling and catering to your feelings, so I must see a therapist and be medicalized. More sexism.
Don’t attack a whole gender? What did you all just do by electing Trump?
Exactly. You were always a fascist regardless of my behavior. You were always going to be fascist and advocate for fascist things. My pleasantness or lack thereof is simply a matter of palatability and convenience for you; it doesn’t actually affect your morals because that isn’t how morals work. A black person can abuse me as much as they want and I won’t advocate for chattel slavery, for instance. I never thought black people had to earn the right to not be enslaved. Shame on you. When the Rs kill all of ypu men in wars and through shitty food, remember that scene from Mad Men - you aren’t doing it for me, because I never liked you.
deleted by creator
“woe is men” isn’t a comparison to women.
Women are victimized by the patriarchy in many ways. Men are victimized by the patriarchy in many ways.
Everyone suffers from the patriarchy. We need to dismantle the patriarchy both by fighting our own fights AND by supporting eachother.
We don’t win by dismissing eachother’s pains as invalid or less important.
I agree, as a woman who very much cares about inclusive feminism. By silencing men who talk about their issues/pains, we push them further away. By pretending like men don’t have worries/fears/needs/wants, we’re doing them a disservice.
The Patriarchy hurts everyone. Men need to know that if theyre abused by a woman, it doesnt make them “less of a man”, nor is it “their fault”. No one deserves abuse. They, as victims deserve to be acknowledged and handled with care, and have their abuse investigated/taken seriously just as much as a woman does.
There’s room enough for us all to be equal.
We aren’t silencing men. We are asking men to extend empathy to women too and not just other men. Men only caring about men is just another patriarchal tool.
I dont think men *don’t * extend empathy to us. I think Ive seen a hard shift from my parents (Gen X, they were young when they had me), to my Millenial husband and my friends. The vast majority (that Ive met, admittedly), seem like they’re on our side.
But it feels like theyre also trying to be like “Hey, we’re dealing with shit too”, and we’re turning around and being like “Not right now” and its been “Not Right Now” for 30+ years.
Are men perfect? Nah, but neither are we, and we have to make space for them to be validated as victims/people with struggles too. And we can also remind them to call out each other when theyre incorrect, and we need to do the same thing for each other which is what Im trying to do now.
Dont be the reason that Lib women get an even worse rep than we already have. We can discuss both perspectives!
I once saw a gif on Reddit of a little girl being forcibly kissed by a little boy (both about 6), and she shoved him off and he looked sad. The entire thousands of comments focused on the little boys first rejection. No one even noticed it was the little girl’s first sexual assault. She even wiped the kiss off, reminiscent of victims cleaning themselves after assaults.
When I pointed this out, people were angry. How dare I suggest that little boy is a monster. But I wasn’t. I was entirely focused on the little girl’s experience and I wasn’t advocating for anything relating to the boy. In fact, I think an appropriate “punishment” would be to explain to him to not touch people without asking etc. And that’s it.
But men were so unable to extend empathy to a girl, to a woman, that they literally couldn’t absorb this information or perspective take as her. This was like 3 years ago. It was astonishing. No, men do NOT empathize with women. Men empathize with themselves as an idealized version of who they would be as a woman - that’s projection by definition and is entirely how they feel entitled to control women and objectify them.
Can you define “patriarchy?” Once you do, can you understand how men have an advantage over women? Lol
men are empowered in a patriarchy by definition and women disempowered.
Are you not even trying to understand how toxic masculinity has forced men to shut up and swallow their feelings, has prevented them from pursuing passions for being “too girly”/not lucrative enough to provide for their family? How its pushed “strongman” narratives, and anything less than that is seen as “weaker/less than”? You cant see how male rape/abuse victims are treated differently than female rape/abuse victims?
Like, if you really cant open your eyes to how that may really affect someones mental health/quality of life, then I think you should do some work on learning empathy.
The 25 year old dude working at the gas station is not the reason the patriarchy is an issue. He’s struggling along with the rest of us, and we’re telling him he has nothing to complain about and has it easier. Thats not okay.
Yes, men are the real victims of the patriarchy
The patriarchy is hierarchy. Like all hierarchies, it’s pyramid shaped. It’s not a rectangle with all men on top and all women in the bottom. It’s a SMALL group of rich men oppressing everyone else. Sure MOST men are given more “power” than MOST women in the structure. That’s the deal the small group of oppressors gave to keep their power. They also give power to strong women who toe the line. But the idea that most men aren’t oppressed in the patriarchy is utterly ridiculous. You seriously think every man you see around you is secretly part of a cabal trying to keep you and other women down? You think that they have no problems, no burdensome expectations placed on them by the patriarchy to keep them in place? That they benefit from toxic masculinity instead of suffer by it? I’m sorry but you have a very dark view of 50% of the population if you think they’re the oppressor class and you’re in the victim class.
We’re all victims of the patriarchy unless we’re old rich white men. The only thing that separates us is the degree of victimisation.
Define “patriarchy.”
When did the US ban spousal rape? When did women get the right to vote? When did women get the right to divorce or have credit cards?
Maybe men are pushed to the extremes because of people like you shitting all over them when there is a post about men’s issues.
Men, being in charge of the patriarchy, aren’t pushed by women. They are pushed by themselves and other men. This is patriarchy 101 and part of why you all sealioning about male abuse isn’t taken seriously anymore unless you are specifically talking about your abuse experience for emotional support. Try advocating for policies to help abuse victims instead of trying to find a creative way to say ‘women bad’ without getting flamed.
Not gonna lie. You’re doing an awful job at advocating. I understand what you’re saying but you’re doing it in such an offputting way that I have to wonder if you even care or if this is just you venting.
Being justified and right doesn’t mean you can act however you want in the name of that just cause. If you’re not likeable then no one is going to listen to you.
I refuse to be performative in my speech. Go police another woman.
The fact that this was your response only demonstrates that you are an unserious person with nothing of value to add, and are in fact part of the problem.
This is what you’re doing.
No.
Women aren’t bad. People who belittle and dismiss victims of abuse are bad. Nice strawman though!
And people who pretend to care about abuse just to abuse women? Are they bad?
No idea what the hell you’re talking about anymore but clearly, abusing anyone is bad.
I’m sorry that someone apparently hurt you in the past, but that’s not my fault or my problem. You should seek help from a therapist instead of just blindly lashing out at anyone who wasn’t born the same sex as you.
Lol yet again a man shows a PROFOUND lack of empathy. Par for the course. Yes, I’m hysterical and not smiling and catering to your feelings, so I must see a therapist and be medicalized. More sexism.
Don’t attack a whole gender? What did you all just do by electing Trump?
Oh, you’re just a sexist. Here I was operating in good faith, my mistake I guess. You people don’t deserve it after all.
Exactly. You were always a fascist regardless of my behavior. You were always going to be fascist and advocate for fascist things. My pleasantness or lack thereof is simply a matter of palatability and convenience for you; it doesn’t actually affect your morals because that isn’t how morals work. A black person can abuse me as much as they want and I won’t advocate for chattel slavery, for instance. I never thought black people had to earn the right to not be enslaved. Shame on you. When the Rs kill all of ypu men in wars and through shitty food, remember that scene from Mad Men - you aren’t doing it for me, because I never liked you.
Hot take bruh
Vulnerable narcissists make up a large portion of incels